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i'm so bored of living i wake up

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every morning in the same bed i get

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dressed and i eat the same breakfast and

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then take the same commute to work

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i'm 28 years old and i'm terrified this

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that's a clip from the amazon series

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undone

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about this woman who has this after

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death experience

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i actually like it i think it's kind of

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interesting of course it doesn't really

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follow near-death experience science but

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then

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why would we expect it to i mean we have

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all these really good

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accounts like the one from dr evan

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alexander the harvard neurosurgeon

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but of course we have to attack those

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people take down those people

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smear those people and then substitute

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an entertaining and well done

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account of what afterlife experiences

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are

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well no big the afterlife is a big tent

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there's room for all but if you want

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something closer to the truth

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listen to people like dr evan alexander

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getting back to your original question

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about the attacks on me

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i will also say it's a very good thing

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that uh three physicians not involved in

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my care and of course one of them was

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dr bruce grayson who spent more than 45

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years studying ndes but they wrote

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a case report on my medical records and

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that came out

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in september of 2018 in the journal of

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nervous and mental diseases

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and that case report went a very long

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way

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towards painting the picture i tried to

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paint in proof of heaven they actually

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go much further than i did

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they had a lot more time to look at my

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medical records three of them did it

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independently objectively

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and i think they were even more shocked

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than i was that

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when my brain was so demonstrably

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offline given my neurologic exams given

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the lab values given the

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ct and mri scans showing all eight lobes

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in my brain affected

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that i could have had the most robust

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profound

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experience of my life in that setting

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and in fact when the peer reviewers the

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journal of nervousness and mental

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disease

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asked them how do you explain this case

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they said it's because he had an

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nde there really shouldn't have been any

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controversy it was this manufactured

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controversy

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i just wanted to kind of put an

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exclamation point on that

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because there are still these lingering

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doubts

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which there will be because the

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effectiveness

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of smearing somebody of taking somebody

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down culturally

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is very well understood you will carry

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that forever it just

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never comes clean because they're really

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really good at that

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i just pull up short when we start

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talking about doing and

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we have to do and we got to reduce that

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plastic

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thing in the in the ocean of course we

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do but

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we just have to be we have to be with

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each other i would say you're

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absolutely right on the beam and uh

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you know early on in all these

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discussions after my ndes i was trying

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to come to a deeper understanding of it

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all

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trying to explain to people trying to

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come up with a shift in world view that

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made sense

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i remember karen pointed out to me very

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brilliantly

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that really all we are here to do is to

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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i'm your host alexa carrison today we

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welcome

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dr evan alexander to skeptico

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and i can say back to skeptico but it's

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really been so

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long not that he hasn't been a frequent

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topic of conversation on the show but

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it's been so long since we had him back

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on that i almost have to

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reintroduce him so dr alexander

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welcome and thanks so much for coming

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well alex thanks so much for having me

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back on i remember having a

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really good time the last time we talked

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and of course a lot has happened since

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then so

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it's great to be back with you again

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yeah you know

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what i always remember about that time

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is i remember 2012 when

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you're really it's hard to hard to share

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with people how groundbreaking your book

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proof of heaven was but what i remember

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was being on an airplane and walking

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from the front to the back

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and how many back covers of proof of

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heaven

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i saw as i was walking through the

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aisles and of course i was

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you know really into near-death

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experience science

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and saying this is important science and

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we need to understand this

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and bam there it was the cultural shift

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that we all wanted and we're all waiting

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for

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was ha i felt like it was happening

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right before my eyes and i felt like it

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was happening

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after that as i talked to people

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you know what was it like for you to

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experience

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success which was

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well deserved because it's such a

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fantastic book proof of heaven

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but then the cultural shift that came

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along with that what was that like

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well it was absolutely extraordinary and

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in many ways of course

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you know i have to kind of reflect a bit

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on

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my own kind of uh tangling with that

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whole

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world in terms of understanding it but

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uh the reality is to me it seems like

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the the culture has made a tremendous uh

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kind of

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upshift over the last decade or two

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concerning ndes and nature of

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consciousness

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you know afterlife stories uh even

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reincarnation i think is being

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much more seriously considered by many i

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i know i was presenting at a scientific

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meeting in belgium about

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a year and a half ago when uh one of the

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investigators from liege in belgium

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showed a slide showing the number of

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paper scientific papers on ndes

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and that in in the year 2012 and 2013

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there was this

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giant uh kind of upsurge uh they

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attributed it to

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proof of heaven but i think there's much

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more going on in the cultural landscape

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of course it was very gratifying to be

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part of that oh and

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and i can tell you that really in the 12

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years since my coma

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uh the thing that to me has been most

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gratifying has been

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working with scientists around the world

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and realizing that there's a tremendous

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kind of impetus

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uh in the scientific community now that

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may not be the

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the new york times science section

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version of science or scientific

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american version of science

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but some scientists who are deeply

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involved in the science of consciousness

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are really in many ways banding together

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and that's where i think a tremendous

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amount of progress is being made

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and i feel like a kid in a candy store

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because

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you know i went through this experience

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it absolutely rocked my world it

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turned my world view 180 degrees i mean

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i promise you an nde is not what you

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expect if you're a materialist scientist

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and to have this profound expansion of

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consciousness

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and then later in the months after my

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coma

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going through medical records talking

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over my doctors

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realizing that all the medical evidence

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was there that i should

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have had no ability to even have a dream

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or hallucination given the damage to my

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neocortex

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and yet i had the most robust profound

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detailed

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memorable uh important impactful

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experience my entire life when my brain

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was documented to be

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uh offline the neocortex was absolutely

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uh damaged beyond function according to

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my medical records

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my brainstem was damaged so it's really

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been an extraordinary journey to be part

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of that

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although i will confess early on you

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know i knew i was going public with a

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story that uh

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was very much antithetical to a lot of

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my career there was

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at least some concern that you know my

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career could suffer from it all although

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i knew

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you know this happened and the other

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similar stories have happened to other

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people

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so we need to understand it more um it's

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you know it was a bit of up and down

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though because there were a lot of

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attacks and

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uh things like that um and so anyway i i

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think the the bottom line is the world

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is shifting dramatically

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uh i think i've had a little bit to do

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with that but more importantly is just

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that scientists around the world are now

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taking this much more seriously

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and we're starting to develop a

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worldview

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kind of an encompassing system a

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hypothetical system

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that can enable it that goes beyond

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materialist thought

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and that's i think been a stumbling

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block for science for a long time

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is trying to come up with a kind of a

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theoretical framework

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that would support all this and i think

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um certainly a lot of what we cover in

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our third book living in a mindful

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universe

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uh goes that direction in helping to

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take the world to the next level

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yeah and i really did enjoy this book uh

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living in a mindful universe

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and i thought it was a good in a lot of

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ways follow on

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it's again has some great personal

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accounts we're just talking

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for a second before we started the

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interview that i i love the story where

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you and karen meet

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ram das i've always had a special

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affinity towards neem karoli baba

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although i've never i never met him or

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experienced him in person but i thought

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his teachings

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and rom dallas is obviously the one who

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brought us that and he's an interesting

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character too

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two harvard guys kind of chatting i'm

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sure you had a good conversation

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but then karen takes it to the next

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level in the book

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and this is in living in a mindful

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universe where she talks about

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this heartfelt meeting

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and this encounter of expanded

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consciousness

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00:10:06,069 --> 00:10:02,079
which i thought you know in a way this

288
00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:06,079
book living in a mindful universe is

289
00:10:11,990 --> 00:10:10,000
allowed to exist because of

290
00:10:14,550 --> 00:10:12,000
proof of heaven because of the space

291
00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:14,560
that you created because of the dialogue

292
00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:17,279
that is possible but i want to fill that

293
00:10:20,150 --> 00:10:18,560
back in because i don't want to get a

294
00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:20,160
little bit i don't want to get too far

295
00:10:24,550 --> 00:10:22,640
into inside baseball and you did a

296
00:10:25,509 --> 00:10:24,560
wonderful job of explaining kind of the

297
00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:25,519
rough

298
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:29,760
sketch of the big picture this guy

299
00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:32,399
evan alexander iii right dr evan

300
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:33,920
alexander iii

301
00:10:36,949 --> 00:10:36,640
and part of the reason for the book is

302
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:36,959
it

303
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:40,240
tells this almost epic

304
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,959
story of kind of like a hero's journey

305
00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:44,480
kind of story

306
00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:47,680
of challenges and difficulties

307
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:50,720
in life experiences that i thought

308
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:53,519
connected with so many people certainly

309
00:10:58,310 --> 00:10:55,040
connected with me

310
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:58,320
on a deep level on a parent level

311
00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:00,880
and again in the second book living in a

312
00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:03,200
mindful universe you have so much to say

313
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:06,640
about how that journey has evolved and

314
00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:09,120
how the family dynamic journey

315
00:11:13,269 --> 00:11:12,320
has evolved so as much as you care to do

316
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:13,279
you want to share

317
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:15,839
any of uh any of that aspect of this

318
00:11:17,829 --> 00:11:17,120
because i don't think it's talked about

319
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:17,839
a lot

320
00:11:21,269 --> 00:11:19,600
i love talking about the science i love

321
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,279
talking about near-death experience

322
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:23,519
science and culture and all that stuff

323
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:26,640
but but what about that part of it well

324
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:29,120
certainly the um you know those who've

325
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,200
read proof of heaven will realize

326
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:33,600
uh the kind of interesting dynamic in my

327
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:34,399
life

328
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,760
of being adopted uh and you know i was

329
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:39,600
put up for adoption when i was 11 days

330
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:40,640
old

331
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:42,640
i was very fortunate i was adopted into

332
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,800
a beautiful and loving family

333
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:46,720
uh and i went through my life uh very

334
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:49,440
much blessed by that adoptive family

335
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:52,880
and um but like most adoptees i

336
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:56,399
i was wondering about my my heritage my

337
00:12:02,310 --> 00:11:59,920
my origin story and so i would write

338
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:02,320
letters to the children's home

339
00:12:05,829 --> 00:12:04,320
you know back when i was in my teens and

340
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:05,839
20s seeking

341
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,519
information about my birth mother i

342
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,360
sensed my birth mother was out there but

343
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:10,959
had no notion about

344
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:13,680
a family or anything and it was really

345
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:14,079
in

346
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:17,600
2000 that i actually got a response

347
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,600
back from them i i gave up looking for a

348
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:21,279
long time

349
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:24,160
uh through most of my uh years and and

350
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,519
just kind of forgot about that

351
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:27,040
adoption story because i figured it

352
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:28,880
wasn't really important my life was

353
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:30,079
going well so

354
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:31,440
you can forget about it even though let

355
00:12:34,069 --> 00:12:33,040
me just check because i picked this up

356
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:34,079
from the second book

357
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:36,480
and this is so powerful so so powerful

358
00:12:40,389 --> 00:12:37,279
and you're so

359
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:40,399
open and honest about this your dad said

360
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:43,120
eben forget about it you couldn't

361
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:44,320
possibly remember

362
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,360
anything and besides it doesn't matter

363
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:49,360
and and this is from the again the

364
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:51,120
parent adoption thing

365
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:53,360
evan we love you we've given you

366
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,200
everything i gave you my name

367
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:57,920
you got it buddy you got everything but

368
00:13:01,990 --> 00:12:58,560
that

369
00:13:04,629 --> 00:13:02,000
know what i mean

370
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,639
well you know the interesting reality is

371
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,000
intellectually i

372
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:08,160
knew he had given me all of that my

373
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,519
adoptive family couldn't have been

374
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:11,040
better they honored all my hopes and

375
00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:11,760
dreams

376
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,680
all that was beautiful but the thing

377
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,680
that my dad did not realize and that it

378
00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:17,600
took me a long time to realize

379
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:19,760
was being left behind by your mother at

380
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:22,000
age 11 days what happened was i stopped

381
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:23,680
eating i went on a hunger strike

382
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:26,320
i was hospitalized for failure to thrive

383
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:27,839
and that's what a lot of

384
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:31,200
infants left behind will do that

385
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,959
and it's from my point of view it's

386
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:34,639
because they basically

387
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:38,240
uh do not feel they have a reason to

388
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:40,000
live if their mother has left them

389
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:41,120
behind

390
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:43,839
they have a serious challenge at a deep

391
00:13:46,710 --> 00:13:45,199
emotional level about whether or not

392
00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:46,720
they're worthy of love and

393
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:48,160
and that is something we discussed a

394
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:49,360
little bit in that book living in a

395
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,320
mindful universe

396
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:51,839
but that was a lot of what i wrestled

397
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:54,399
with and of course i was very loved by

398
00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:55,680
my adoptive family

399
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:58,480
but that doesn't change the fact that i

400
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,360
i still had

401
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:01,519
memory of events that happened when i

402
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:04,000
was 11 days old that were so shocking

403
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:06,560
it caused me to try to off myself you

404
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:07,519
know with that

405
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:10,639
hunger strike uh failure to thrive and

406
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:12,160
if you will tell the story i thought it

407
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,800
was again

408
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:14,480
i i don't just dwell on this but it's

409
00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:16,000
super important i think to the

410
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:19,360
to the larger picture is that your

411
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:22,240
your adoptive parents your parents i'll

412
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,440
just say that

413
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:25,680
then are able to conceive and have a

414
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:26,880
child which they didn't think was

415
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,600
possible

416
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:30,000
and then what happens to to you again

417
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:31,839
the the the knowledge that we

418
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:35,360
carry as you know pre uh

419
00:14:41,189 --> 00:14:38,560
verbal you know amazing

420
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:41,199
it is amazing and we do carry it in fact

421
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:42,399
it's one of the biggest

422
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:44,000
kind of problems with our modern

423
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,240
societies we believe that everything

424
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:48,079
uh the only thing's important and the

425
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:49,199
only things that are real are

426
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:51,680
linguistically described narratives

427
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:54,160
and uh so of course we miss a tremendous

428
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:55,199
amount of what's

429
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:56,959
kind of going on in our lives but to me

430
00:14:59,670 --> 00:14:59,040
that adoption story was a fundamental

431
00:15:02,710 --> 00:14:59,680
part

432
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:02,720
of my whole journey because in many ways

433
00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:04,880
i could see kind of the shadow side the

434
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,839
echoes of

435
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,680
my not feeling worthy of love through a

436
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:09,839
lot of my life before coma

437
00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:12,079
and it had to do with uh it affected my

438
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:13,839
relationships in many ways

439
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:15,839
uh but it was really a huge part of the

440
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:16,880
journey and of course

441
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:19,360
in those earliest days i was having

442
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,279
trouble even visualizing as

443
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,040
an issue in my life even though it was a

444
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:25,920
very important one in my early life

445
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:29,199
but this entire journey including my nde

446
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,040
and then of course including the 12

447
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:33,360
years plus of resolution beyond that

448
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:34,079
point

449
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:36,959
has been a tremendous lesson in how all

450
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:39,279
aspects of our lives the good the bad

451
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:41,680
the challenges the hurdles these are

452
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:44,000
beautiful gifts and that was something

453
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:46,959
that i uh kind of sensed after my nde it

454
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:48,320
was apparent to me that

455
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:50,800
uh some of the biggest kind of hardships

456
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:53,120
of my life had actually been

457
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:55,680
the the catalysts or the kind of mile

458
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:57,199
post that marked my

459
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:59,440
greatest progress as i grew into things

460
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:00,880
and kind of grew into a deeper knowing

461
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:02,000
of myself

462
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:04,240
uh and and that's really been the best

463
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:05,440
part of the journey it's this

464
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,639
extraordinary

465
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:09,360
richness of having that for one thing a

466
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:11,600
very expanded view of self relative to

467
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:13,199
the universe through an nde

468
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:16,079
a deep kind of spiritual sense of a

469
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:17,920
certain role in life and a certain

470
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:19,040
responsibility

471
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:21,279
and an acknowledgement that our choices

472
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:22,079
absolutely

473
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:24,560
matter at every level uh but then to

474
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:25,519
have this

475
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:27,279
kind of resolution of that whole

476
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,720
adoption issue and the

477
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:30,800
worthiness of love and that kind of

478
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:33,199
feeling of of being less than for much

479
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:34,800
of my life and

480
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,399
so it really has been an extraordinary

481
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:38,480
gift but it could not have come without

482
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:39,519
the hardships

483
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:41,040
it could not have come without those

484
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:42,880
difficulties and

485
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:45,440
uh for that i'm just grateful and that's

486
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:46,079
why

487
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,160
what i try and share with people is to

488
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:50,399
embrace those challenges the hurdles in

489
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:51,360
life

490
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:54,560
illness injury because in so many ways

491
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:57,600
they can be the uh basically the engines

492
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,480
of growth

493
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:01,040
to help our souls come into the higher

494
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:02,800
soul that we came here to be

495
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:04,400
and i love being awakened to that and

496
00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:05,919
that's been a huge part

497
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:08,000
of the kind of expansion of my idea of

498
00:17:12,309 --> 00:17:10,319
self and a relationship to the universe

499
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:12,319
that resulted from my nde

500
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:14,720
but i must confess a tremendous amount

501
00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:15,760
of my growth

502
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:18,559
has also been due to meeting you know

503
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:20,319
thousands of other experiencers

504
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:22,720
and working with a scientific community

505
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:25,039
worldwide that realizes consciousness is

506
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:26,319
fundamental in the universe

507
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:29,760
so i was gifted tremendously uh by this

508
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:30,640
uh what you know

509
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:31,840
some people would look at a weakened

510
00:17:34,990 --> 00:17:33,760
coma due to a severe grim negative

511
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:35,000
bacterial

512
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:37,600
meningoencephalitis is something of a uh

513
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,160
you know

514
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:40,960
bad luck well no in my case it was an

515
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:42,080
extraordinary

516
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,360
uh gift to show me ways of healing

517
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:47,840
of understanding of our kind of

518
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:49,280
alignment of our purpose with the

519
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:50,000
universe

520
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,480
that i think can be useful to all beings

521
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:54,480
and that's why i love sharing the story

522
00:17:58,830 --> 00:17:57,440
and expanding on it because the science

523
00:18:01,990 --> 00:17:58,840
is fully there

524
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:02,000
supporting this primacy of consciousness

525
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:02,320
and

526
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:08,240
powerful notion of free will

527
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:10,559
you know free will is pretty much on the

528
00:18:13,909 --> 00:18:12,000
chopping block with materialist

529
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:13,919
neuroscience

530
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:15,679
because basically they're pretending

531
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:17,919
that all those ion channels are still

532
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:19,360
behaving like newtonian

533
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:22,000
billiard balls and with you know a

534
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:23,760
perfectly determined course of action

535
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:24,640
but no

536
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,559
the deepest message of quantum physics

537
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:28,640
is really one of free will it opens the

538
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:29,200
door

539
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:31,120
to free will of sentience of the mental

540
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,400
layer of the universe

541
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,640
and that's where our healing can come in

542
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:36,160
full force

543
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:37,679
you know i mean the medical community

544
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,600
has admitted to mind over matter for

545
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:41,039
more than six decades

546
00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:43,840
by honoring placebo effect as their gold

547
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:46,400
standard for assessing any new medical

548
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:49,440
treatment or modality and a placebo

549
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,520
effect is nothing more than an admission

550
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:53,600
that our beliefs attitudes and thoughts

551
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:55,440
can have a tremendous influence on our

552
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:56,240
health

553
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,960
and i would say that this revolution in

554
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:00,400
understanding of consciousness

555
00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:02,960
greatly expands that notion of our free

556
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:04,240
will and ability

557
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:07,120
to become more whole more of the soul we

558
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:08,960
came here to be

559
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:11,440
awesome and i i do want to circle back

560
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:12,960
on something because you mentioned

561
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:14,080
hardship

562
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:17,039
and what you had to go through and uh

563
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,600
also

564
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:19,919
you know you're a humble guy in terms of

565
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:20,960
talking about

566
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:23,280
your influence here but as we talked

567
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,720
about at the beginning and i can't

568
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:26,480
emphasize it enough

569
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,400
you were that swing you were that

570
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:30,240
upswing in the chart that the guy

571
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:33,039
had you know you were selected for

572
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,559
whatever reason to be

573
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:36,240
we have to understand and for whatever

574
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:39,039
reason but you were also the guy

575
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:42,559
who faced really unbelievable hardship

576
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:43,520
when we look about

577
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:45,039
when we look at it but i think it's such

578
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:46,480
an important lesson i think it's a

579
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:46,960
lesson

580
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,520
and we might not totally agree with this

581
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,520
but we can agree with the data maybe not

582
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,039
the interpretation of the data

583
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:55,679
but what you experience from a cultural

584
00:20:03,830 --> 00:19:56,799
takedown

585
00:20:07,110 --> 00:20:03,840
of dr evan alexander which was

586
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:07,120
really so absurd on some level so over

587
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,080
the top

588
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,159
that anyone should have been able to

589
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:12,240
spot it but let me recap because we've

590
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:13,760
talked about a lot on this show

591
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:17,440
so you come out with this book

592
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:20,480
again folks you know the the way that i

593
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:22,400
i always like to relate this to people

594
00:20:26,789 --> 00:20:23,520
is like

595
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:26,799
when i tell people that the

596
00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:29,679
quote-unquote prominent atheist sam

597
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:32,240
harris who's also a neuroscientist

598
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:34,480
said that uh what did he exactly say

599
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:36,799
it's alarmingly unscientific this guy's

600
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:37,360
book

601
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,760
and then he went on to say this guy

602
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:41,600
doesn't know neuroscience

603
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,360
and when i relate to that story to

604
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:45,039
people people always have this

605
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,039
quizzical look and they go but i thought

606
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:49,679
you said he was a harvard neurosurgeon

607
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:50,159
as if

608
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:52,000
you know he was in the harvard medical

609
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:54,159
school teaching students

610
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:57,039
neuroscience and neurosurgery and i go

611
00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:57,840
yeah

612
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:59,760
and i'm like well then why what it

613
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:00,960
doesn't even

614
00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:05,600
where it would kind of even be

615
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:07,600
reasonable or you know another prominent

616
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:10,799
guy in his past now but oliver sacks

617
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:13,120
oliver sachs who was loved by the

618
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:14,880
psychology community and all that

619
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:17,280
he felt the need to come out esquire

620
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:19,039
magazine which we covered

621
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:22,960
you know on this show extensively uh

622
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:25,520
came out with a cover story evan

623
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:26,720
alexander

624
00:21:30,310 --> 00:21:29,120
you know and when you really break it

625
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:30,320
down they're

626
00:21:37,230 --> 00:21:33,840
caught just with bold-faced lies

627
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:37,240
we broke it down lies

628
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,240
misrepresentations where we're the

629
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:42,559
the physician who was your primary care

630
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:44,159
physician in the hospital

631
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:47,120
has to write a response and say i have

632
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:48,720
been misrepresented

633
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:51,200
i'm deeply concerned about what esquire

634
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:52,480
magazine has written

635
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:55,440
it's not at all my opinion about dr

636
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:58,799
alexander or about what he's

637
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:01,840
this is a cultural takedown

638
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:04,799
it's in my opinion it's not accidental

639
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:05,440
it's not

640
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:09,039
around and going

641
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,960
well gee you know i have a different

642
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:12,240
scholarly opinion

643
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:15,760
on that based on my analysis

644
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:17,760
what do you think about that are you

645
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:19,120
willing to

646
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:22,000
even explore the possibility that there

647
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:23,760
was some

648
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:27,360
some design behind that takedown

649
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:29,919
well i would say that you know we

650
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:30,720
everybody

651
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,960
um has a certain addiction to their

652
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:34,159
beliefs

653
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:37,360
and this is true for all people and that

654
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,880
includes scientists and philosophers um

655
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:42,960
you know we like to think we understand

656
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:44,320
things and so

657
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,320
people uh kind of are attracted

658
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:50,480
uh to a set of beliefs that they develop

659
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,440
over time and

660
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,000
in our culture unfortunately scientific

661
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,000
materialism has held sway for

662
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:58,799
you know many generations now uh and

663
00:23:01,510 --> 00:22:59,360
that

664
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,520
i i would say has led to a tremendous

665
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:02,880
amount of damage

666
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:05,360
but when i look at for example the uh

667
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:08,080
critiques so that sam harris and

668
00:23:13,110 --> 00:23:11,440
oliver sacks uh came at me with

669
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:13,120
mainly it was because they didn't they

670
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:14,559
hadn't really read my

671
00:23:18,149 --> 00:23:16,559
book for one thing they basically but

672
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:18,159
evan no they they read your book

673
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:20,320
no they i talked to sam harris they read

674
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:21,360
your book

675
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:22,799
that that's why i and you don't have to

676
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:25,039
go there but i i think we

677
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:27,520
we kind of do our community a disservice

678
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:29,440
if we don't address this head-on so if

679
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:30,559
you're saying you you believe

680
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,200
differently

681
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:33,280
if you believe sam harris is an honest

682
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:35,440
player who just is you know just doing

683
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:36,000
his best

684
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,240
and just couldn't understand it and all

685
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:40,480
the i mean fine but i don't see it that

686
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:41,440
way i see it

687
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:44,799
as spirituality is

688
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,880
enough assault on scientific materialism

689
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,880
and there's certain people that have a

690
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:52,080
vested interest

691
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,120
in seeing that not prevail

692
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:57,360
and that they just like in everything

693
00:24:00,149 --> 00:23:58,559
else in life

694
00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:00,159
they are going to exercise whatever

695
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:02,080
extent of control they have

696
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:04,159
to to see that that doesn't happen so

697
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:05,520
you don't have to agree with that but to

698
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:06,400
me that seems

699
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:07,919
self-evident i would say in many ways

700
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:09,760
you're exactly right and for example if

701
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:10,960
you compare

702
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:14,320
sam harris's attack on me where he was

703
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:15,279
basically

704
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:18,480
uh trying to say that uh this if if this

705
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:20,400
experience happened at all it looked

706
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:22,799
like a dmt experience he

707
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:25,120
he went that far to try and say this is

708
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:26,240
nothing more than that it's a

709
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,279
biochemical

710
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:29,600
uh thing we can forget about it uh and

711
00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:31,520
then if you simultaneously

712
00:24:37,029 --> 00:24:34,880
go and read bernardo castro's blog

713
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:37,039
postings at the same time responding to

714
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:38,400
sam harris

715
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:41,360
castro comes at it with a far more kind

716
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:42,240
of intelligent

717
00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:45,760
open-minded and i would say realistic

718
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:46,000
way

719
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:48,559
of interpreting my experience uh where

720
00:24:51,909 --> 00:24:50,799
he is fully open to the reality of that

721
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:51,919
experience

722
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,360
and i i would say first of all i i think

723
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:57,360
you're making a good point in many ways

724
00:25:02,630 --> 00:24:59,120
that there is kind of this

725
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:02,640
groundswell of kind of angst and recoil

726
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:03,200
in in

727
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:04,960
some members of the scientific community

728
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:07,440
and also in those who claim to be

729
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:08,720
science science

730
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,679
journalists uh that's a bias it's a

731
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,200
prejudice and it

732
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,080
is goes into attack mode as soon as you

733
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:18,240
mention anything about heaven or god or

734
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:19,360
an afterlife

735
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:22,720
uh they go ballistic and yet uh you know

736
00:25:28,149 --> 00:25:25,600
the 300 plus scientists now associated

737
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:28,159
with galileocommission.org

738
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:29,440
for example and i'm one of the

739
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:33,360
scientific advisors for that group

740
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:35,679
will actually argue that these

741
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:37,120
experiences

742
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,760
uh help us and in that i would say not

743
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,200
only afterlife nde

744
00:25:44,549 --> 00:25:43,360
deafbed vision experiences but also the

745
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:44,559
tremendous

746
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,000
of scientific literature on

747
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:48,400
reincarnation and there's a lot of it

748
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:50,159
out there but the biggest body i know of

749
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:50,480
is

750
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:56,640
more than six decades of work and what

751
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,679
you realize

752
00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:00,159
is that a lot of scientists currently

753
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:02,320
studying consciousness

754
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:06,480
completely go with the reality of these

755
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:07,440
experiences

756
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:09,679
because they're not forbidden by science

757
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:10,799
at all

758
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:13,039
in fact in many ways when you look at

759
00:26:16,549 --> 00:26:14,720
quantum physics and how it's evolved

760
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:16,559
over the last few decades

761
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:19,919
uh not only is kind of the spiritual

762
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:22,000
realm a realm of unified

763
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:25,760
mental function and of kind of shared

764
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:26,559
purpose

765
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:30,240
not only is that allowed by the findings

766
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,000
of scientific experiments and

767
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:35,039
modern paradigms it's actually demanded

768
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:36,640
i mean the alternative

769
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:38,240
for example in interpreting the

770
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:40,240
measurement paradox in quantum physics

771
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:42,240
is the mini world's interpretation in

772
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,480
infinite parallel universes

773
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:46,799
and i think that most of us can agree

774
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:48,720
that doesn't appear to be

775
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,960
the world we live in and that's where i

776
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:52,480
would say that science

777
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,360
will actually benefit from appreciating

778
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:57,360
you know this bigger database about the

779
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,279
afterlife and about reincarnation about

780
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:01,120
what it tells us about consciousness

781
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:03,120
about the relationship of ontology with

782
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:04,400
epistemology

783
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:06,080
uh and how we can come to a deeper

784
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:07,679
understanding of ourselves so it's

785
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:08,400
really

786
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:11,840
a very important shift uh to move us to

787
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,640
the next level

788
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:15,120
and and i think one specific example of

789
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:15,840
how i see

790
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:19,360
science as growing into this would be

791
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:22,320
the the recent uh set of scientific

792
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:24,799
papers over the last nine years or so

793
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:28,080
uh of using fmri functional magneto

794
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:31,440
uh uh you know magnetic resonance

795
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:32,559
imaging scans

796
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:35,440
as well as magnetoencephalography and

797
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,000
other

798
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:38,960
techniques of looking at the brain and

799
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,919
with

800
00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:41,279
when you study people under the

801
00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:44,559
influence of certain serotonin 2a

802
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:47,360
type plant medicines like psilocybin

803
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:48,720
magic mushrooms

804
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:51,760
dmt uh active principle in ayahuasca

805
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:54,640
uh lsd there are papers out there from

806
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,120
london

807
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:57,360
from south america that show that the

808
00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:58,480
brains of people

809
00:28:01,590 --> 00:28:00,480
under the influence of these substances

810
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:01,600
goes dark

811
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:03,200
there's no part of the brain that

812
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:05,360
increases an activity in fact the whole

813
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,000
brain

814
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:08,480
gets out of the way and from a

815
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:10,080
scientific perspective

816
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:12,320
that doesn't mean we have to stop it

817
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,000
just means we have to realize that

818
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:16,000
within the materials paradigm and trying

819
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,799
to look at

820
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:19,120
phenomenal experience as the result of

821
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:21,360
chemical reactions and electron fluxes

822
00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:23,440
you have to realize no there are higher

823
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:24,799
ordering principles

824
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:27,679
involved uh that give us our phenomenal

825
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:28,880
experience and they're not

826
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:32,000
simply the result of atoms and molecules

827
00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:33,360
following

828
00:28:37,269 --> 00:28:35,440
the laws of physics chemistry and

829
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,279
biology and so it really

830
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,200
helps for science to expand its

831
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:41,440
worldview beyond materialism

832
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:43,200
i don't think that science well

833
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:45,520
practiced is limited to materialism

834
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,120
except for the fact of course

835
00:28:51,029 --> 00:28:49,360
that people like to measure things and

836
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:51,039
most measurements kind of occur in the

837
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:52,320
material world

838
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,720
uh but i think that a scientific mind

839
00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:56,320
for example when i look at the

840
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:58,240
work coming out of uva dots and

841
00:29:02,149 --> 00:28:59,440
especially of those three

842
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:02,159
landmark books from ed kelly uh you know

843
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:04,159
irreducible mind beyond physicalism and

844
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:05,120
now consciousness

845
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:07,520
unbound they're a beautiful example of

846
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:08,720
how science can go

847
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:11,840
far beyond materialism in trying to

848
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:13,440
explain the nature of reality

849
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:16,559
as in fact it must because there's more

850
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:19,279
to this universe than the physical world

851
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:20,159
and

852
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:22,080
you know getting back to your original

853
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:24,240
question about the attacks on me

854
00:29:30,789 --> 00:29:27,840
i will also say it's a very good thing

855
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,799
that uh three physicians not involved in

856
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:32,720
my care and of course one of them was

857
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:35,039
dr bruce grayson who spent more than uh

858
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,120
45 years studying ndes

859
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:39,520
but they wrote up a case report on my

860
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:41,360
medical records and that came out

861
00:29:46,149 --> 00:29:44,399
in september of 2018 in the journal of

862
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:46,159
nervous and mental diseases

863
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:49,120
and that uh case report went a very long

864
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,320
way

865
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:52,960
towards uh painting the picture i tried

866
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,080
to paint and proof of heaven they

867
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:56,000
actually go much further than i did

868
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:57,360
they had a lot more time to look at my

869
00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:59,039
medical records three of them did it

870
00:30:02,389 --> 00:30:00,880
independently objectively

871
00:30:04,870 --> 00:30:02,399
uh and i think they were even more

872
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:04,880
shocked than i was that my brain

873
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:07,440
uh you know that when my brain was so

874
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:08,399
demonstrably

875
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:11,279
offline given my neurologic exams given

876
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:12,880
the lab values given the

877
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:14,960
ct and mri scan showing all eight lobes

878
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:16,240
in my brain affected

879
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:18,480
that i could have had the most robust

880
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:20,320
profound

881
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:23,360
experience of my life uh you know

882
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:25,440
in that setting and in fact when the

883
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:26,799
peer reviewers the journal of

884
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:28,640
nervousness and mental disease

885
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:30,640
ask them how do you explain this case

886
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:32,320
because just like when i reviewed my

887
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,600
records i was like this

888
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:35,120
these are the records of someone who is

889
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:37,679
bound to die not someone who is going to

890
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,360
end up having a full recovery

891
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:41,600
so it was a deep mystery to me likewise

892
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:44,799
to these three doctors who reviewed my

893
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:46,960
case until when they were challenged how

894
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:48,320
do you explain

895
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:52,080
this horrific uh medical circumstance

896
00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:53,840
resulting in a full recovery

897
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:57,519
they said it's because he had an nde

898
00:31:00,950 --> 00:31:00,000
that was enough to satisfy the peer

899
00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:00,960
reviewers

900
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:03,519
of a scientific medical journal oh now

901
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:04,960
we have an explanation

902
00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:06,640
and it's because they knew of other

903
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:09,279
cases like anita morgani who

904
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:10,960
wrote the book dying to be me and had an

905
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:13,279
advanced stage 4 lymphoma

906
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:15,840
that she was within hours of death by

907
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,200
any doctor's reckoning

908
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:19,360
and yet she had a profound nde came back

909
00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:20,799
to this world

910
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:22,880
almost 20 years ago is when she did all

911
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:25,200
this and it was because of her nde she

912
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:26,159
came back

913
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:28,480
likewise dr mary c neil the orthopedic

914
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:29,919
surgeon she wrote a book called

915
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:32,960
heaven and back a warm water drowning in

916
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:36,159
chile kayaking back in 1999 she was

917
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:38,159
underwater more than 30 minutes her legs

918
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,640
broken under a boulder

919
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:43,120
she was brought to the surface dead

920
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,320
resuscitated

921
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:46,399
ended up making a full recovery she had

922
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:48,080
a profound nde

923
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:50,559
so it's it's simply taking our lesson

924
00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:51,519
from

925
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:53,840
placebo effect and acknowledgement of

926
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:55,200
beliefs thoughts

927
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:57,279
and attitudes playing a tremendous role

928
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:58,240
in our health

929
00:32:03,029 --> 00:32:00,880
and realizing well in these deeper kind

930
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:03,039
of spiritual journeys of ndes

931
00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:05,360
uh you have extraordinary options for

932
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,159
returning

933
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:08,880
health to a soul on a journey but it

934
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:10,000
involves

935
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:12,640
waking up to that much bigger role that

936
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:13,679
we play the much

937
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:16,399
bigger soul that we are a soul that has

938
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:18,399
been here many lives before will be here

939
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:19,760
many lives to come

940
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:22,159
and participate in this evolution of all

941
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:23,279
of consciousness

942
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,360
and that's where i think so much of the

943
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:27,120
current revolution in science

944
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,399
about primacy of consciousness and this

945
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:32,559
deep debate about free will and

946
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:34,399
uh whether it really exists and how can

947
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:36,000
it manifest is so

948
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:38,320
important if for nothing else to heal

949
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,120
ourselves

950
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:41,679
to come into wholeness that's what this

951
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:44,799
is really all about this awakening

952
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,399
you know i want to just return i want to

953
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:48,159
make sure people got

954
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:50,480
that little story that you did there

955
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:52,000
there really shouldn't have been any

956
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:52,880
controversy

957
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:55,279
it was really cut and dried but it was

958
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,159
this manufactured

959
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:59,039
controversy but the story behind it and

960
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:00,720
you just said that now it's been

961
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:02,240
medically reviewed and you know i just

962
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:02,640
had

963
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:05,600
dr bruce grayson on the show recently

964
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:06,960
and of course he's written this

965
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:10,480
terrific book after and you are uh

966
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:13,200
mentioned throughout that but i love

967
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:14,960
this story that he tells

968
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:18,159
about kind of the personal part again of

969
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:20,960
you have this experience and you get

970
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:23,679
some pretty sage advice from your son

971
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:27,600
who says dad don't read anything you're

972
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,200
going to be tempted to kind of go there

973
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:31,120
don't just get your account down

974
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,480
and that turns out to be really good

975
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:34,080
advice you do that then you get in the

976
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:35,120
car and you drive

977
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,159
and you guys meet with dr grayson

978
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:40,399
and uh so that's kind of an important

979
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:42,399
meeting and then later on

980
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:45,600
he says what you just recounts that just

981
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:47,120
a couple years ago

982
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:49,760
they finally published this but he had

983
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:51,039
investigated it

984
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:53,440
prior to saying okay let me examine this

985
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:54,159
case

986
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:57,120
from a medical standpoint and they had

987
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,880
three independent people and i just love

988
00:34:01,909 --> 00:34:00,480
this little snippet which i was trying

989
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:01,919
to lead to

990
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:05,039
grayson goes well then i you know

991
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:07,120
kind of pow-wowed with my colleagues to

992
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,639
see where there were any discrepancies

993
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:10,480
because to me it was clear-cut

994
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:12,000
and he said that there were no

995
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:14,159
discrepancies everybody came back and

996
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:14,639
said

997
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:16,480
this is why am i even examining this

998
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,560
this is a slam dunk of course

999
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:20,560
that this is a non-functioning brain

1000
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:22,159
this person should have died

1001
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:24,159
and if they you know if they didn't die

1002
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:25,520
which the 99

1003
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:27,040
they would have died they no way they

1004
00:34:31,230 --> 00:34:28,879
would ever recover so

1005
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:31,240
again to me that all points to a

1006
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:32,560
manufactured

1007
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:33,520
but i'm going to get into that you

1008
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:35,119
already t you already handled that i

1009
00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:36,480
just wanted to

1010
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:39,200
kind of put an exclamation point on that

1011
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:39,839
because

1012
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:43,280
there are still these lingering doubts

1013
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,480
which there will be because the the

1014
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:49,200
effectiveness of smearing somebody of

1015
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:50,480
taking somebody down

1016
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:53,359
culturally is is very well understood

1017
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:55,679
these guys do a great job you will carry

1018
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:56,560
that

1019
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:00,320
never comes clean because they're

1020
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,960
really really good at that but back to

1021
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:04,400
your other point let me kind of

1022
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:06,160
wrap that into a question it's kind of a

1023
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:08,000
related question and again we might not

1024
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:09,760
see it the same way but

1025
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:12,880
i i just interviewed this wonderful guy

1026
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:15,359
dr steve taylor and he's written this

1027
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:17,359
book and i hope i can get the name right

1028
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:20,640
why science science spiritual science

1029
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:21,599
exactly

1030
00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:30,390
fill in the blank and i i i love the guy

1031
00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:33,359
but he's got it completely backwards

1032
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,680
it's not that science needs spirituality

1033
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:37,440
science is doing everything it freaking

1034
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:39,680
can to keep spirituality out of the

1035
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:40,640
picture to keep them

1036
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:43,200
out of their game their game is up when

1037
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:44,800
they let spirituality in

1038
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,359
so you can talk as you are about the

1039
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:49,200
advancements and maybe we can

1040
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:51,760
ground up you know from the ground up

1041
00:35:54,790 --> 00:35:53,200
from the bottom up

1042
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:54,800
you know change the tide and we

1043
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:57,040
certainly have to so we have to try

1044
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:58,640
right so what you're talking about is

1045
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:00,400
certainly true

1046
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:03,359
but i do kind of call into question

1047
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:05,040
whether or not we should consider the

1048
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:05,839
alternative

1049
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:08,880
is that science is actively

1050
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,000
trying to keep spirituality out of

1051
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:14,160
the equation because it's not good for

1052
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:16,079
business it's not good for science as we

1053
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:18,720
know it's business

1054
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:21,280
well those are interesting points i've

1055
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:22,160
read

1056
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:23,920
steve taylor's book i thought it was

1057
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:26,800
actually quite good um

1058
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:28,560
and uh you know as i was mentioning a

1059
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,960
few minutes ago with talking about the

1060
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,880
psychedelics and looking at the brain

1061
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:34,400
and the brain goes dark

1062
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:36,480
that's why i'm saying science does need

1063
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:38,160
to expand beyond material

1064
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:39,760
the material is thinking of brain

1065
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:42,480
creates consciousness is clearly false

1066
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:44,960
and uh and and so that's where that's

1067
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:46,160
for me an example

1068
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:49,040
of how science can be more open-minded

1069
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,880
and grow into a bigger picture

1070
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:52,480
to try and get to the truth i mean

1071
00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:55,040
ultimately we all would like to know the

1072
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:58,240
capital t truth you know the the the

1073
00:37:01,270 --> 00:36:58,640
true

1074
00:37:02,230 --> 00:37:01,280
nuts and bolts of how the universe works

1075
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,240
and uh

1076
00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:04,560
you know i'd say especially given all

1077
00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:05,440
the study of

1078
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:08,240
ndes uh and all the evidence

1079
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:09,200
accumulating and

1080
00:37:13,349 --> 00:37:11,359
saying the hospice literature about the

1081
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:13,359
power of deathbed visions the

1082
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:16,000
the reality the transformative abilities

1083
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:16,960
that they bring

1084
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:18,640
and then you've got this tremendous body

1085
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,000
of evidence

1086
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:22,800
on reincarnation not just from groups

1087
00:37:25,589 --> 00:37:23,680
like uva

1088
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:25,599
dots where they have more than 2500

1089
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:27,839
cases of past life memories and children

1090
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:29,440
suggestive of reincarnation

1091
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:30,960
but you have this whole world of

1092
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:33,040
transpersonal psychology

1093
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,880
beginning with the work of carl jung and

1094
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,240
charles tartan and

1095
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:38,640
uh moving on to stan groff and michael

1096
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:40,560
newton brian weiss and others

1097
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,400
where they realized that to deal with

1098
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,880
the issues faced by their patients

1099
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:47,040
uh you know with very psychological

1100
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:48,640
psychiatric issues

1101
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,160
that by doing uh hypnotic regression and

1102
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:54,240
uncovering memories of past lives you

1103
00:37:58,230 --> 00:37:55,520
start to explain

1104
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:58,240
and understand why certain challenges

1105
00:38:02,310 --> 00:37:59,760
are there in this lifetime

1106
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,320
and not only that you gain the tools to

1107
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:04,240
start to heal them so

1108
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:06,240
this is not just some kind of idle you

1109
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:08,560
know armchair philosophy question of

1110
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:10,640
you know afterlife and reincarnation are

1111
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:11,920
they real or not

1112
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,520
uh you know just to tell us what happens

1113
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:15,280
when we die it's a much

1114
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:17,200
bigger question of how do we live the

1115
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:18,880
lives we have here and now

1116
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:21,119
day to day how do we make choices how do

1117
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:22,400
we see ourselves

1118
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,640
in relationship to others and to the

1119
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:26,640
universe and i would argue

1120
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:30,000
that this kind of expanded the vision

1121
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,280
of a study of consciousness uh allows us

1122
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:35,440
to greatly expand our own kind of

1123
00:38:38,470 --> 00:38:37,280
self-vision of our relationship with the

1124
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:38,480
universe and

1125
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:41,760
uh really how to act how to be uh how to

1126
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:42,960
think of ourselves

1127
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:45,280
so that when we come to the end of a

1128
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:47,280
life of a physical body

1129
00:38:52,550 --> 00:38:50,480
we don't get that extreme shock

1130
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:52,560
of having your body die and all of a

1131
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:54,079
sudden realize you're more conscious

1132
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:55,680
than you've ever been before

1133
00:39:01,829 --> 00:38:59,040
and damn did i waste that life

1134
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:01,839
following a falsehood that was promoted

1135
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:03,920
by the material of scientific community

1136
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:05,760
just because their theoretical models

1137
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:07,040
were inadequate

1138
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:08,560
uh and they couldn't figure out what the

1139
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:10,320
empirical data was telling them

1140
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:12,400
doesn't mean we have to just kind of

1141
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:13,839
give up and pretend total

1142
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:15,520
ignorance and and follow this

1143
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:17,520
materialist uh

1144
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,720
uh mindset down into the abyss no

1145
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:22,800
this is about and as i said earlier with

1146
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:24,800
placebo effect and healing

1147
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:27,520
uh it's such an extraordinary capacity

1148
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:28,160
to kind of

1149
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:30,560
improve ourselves and gain health and

1150
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:31,440
wholeness

1151
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:33,680
why in the world would we keep pursuing

1152
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:34,880
a very limited

1153
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:37,760
disproven worldview like materialism i

1154
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:38,960
mean essentially

1155
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:40,560
it should have been banned from the

1156
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:42,480
world 80 years ago with the advent of

1157
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:43,680
quantum physics

1158
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:45,760
you know materialism really has died

1159
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:47,520
it's just that a lot of materialists

1160
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,040
have not read the memo yet

1161
00:39:53,190 --> 00:39:51,359
but it's an absolute fact when you study

1162
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:53,200
the data and if human beings want to

1163
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:54,240
understand

1164
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:57,119
human experience they need to realize

1165
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:58,800
this science of consciousness

1166
00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:00,400
is about trying to get to a deeper

1167
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:02,320
understanding of some of the toughest

1168
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:04,560
most challenging experiences humans have

1169
00:40:07,750 --> 00:40:06,880
ever had and yet they reveal some very

1170
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:07,760
profound

1171
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:11,119
and refreshing and liberating truths

1172
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:14,319
about our true nature and that's where i

1173
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,119
think this is

1174
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:17,520
a very important thing to do to share

1175
00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:19,520
this discussion get it out there

1176
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:21,440
i'm glad you do exactly what you do

1177
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:23,599
because i think you are

1178
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:26,000
playing a central role in helping to

1179
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:26,960
catalyze

1180
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:28,960
tremendous awakening of this planet

1181
00:40:31,109 --> 00:40:30,240
which i would say is absolutely

1182
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:31,119
necessary

1183
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:33,680
if we're going to survive i mean with

1184
00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:35,280
all the addiction of fossil fuels

1185
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:37,440
plastic pollution we are in deep trouble

1186
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:39,119
from materialist thinking in a false

1187
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:40,560
sense of separation

1188
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:42,800
we need to take responsibility for our

1189
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:44,240
choices

1190
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:46,160
well let's you know you you touch on

1191
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:47,359
something that's uh

1192
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:48,720
super important and those are very kind

1193
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:50,319
words and i appreciate it but you

1194
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:51,680
touched on

1195
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:54,560
you know where a lot of your energy and

1196
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,240
mission has gone

1197
00:41:01,829 --> 00:40:59,520
in in recent years and that is the tools

1198
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:01,839
of healing the tools of becoming whole

1199
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:02,880
the tools of

1200
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:04,960
you know because one of the things we

1201
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:07,119
know from this near-death experience and

1202
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:09,040
we've explored on this show

1203
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:11,599
it doesn't mean that the journey's over

1204
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:13,200
and it doesn't mean that the challenges

1205
00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:14,000
aren't over

1206
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,280
and it doesn't mean that you're still

1207
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:17,040
not going to face stuff and

1208
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:20,000
in some ways it it does make it worse

1209
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:21,200
right it makes

1210
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:22,960
some of our relationships worse because

1211
00:41:25,270 --> 00:41:24,560
not everyone went through the experience

1212
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:25,280
with us

1213
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:27,119
so they might not see it the same way

1214
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,720
and the world hasn't gone through the

1215
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:30,240
experience so there's a lot of issues

1216
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:30,640
here

1217
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:33,680
so i want you to talk about healing

1218
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:36,640
and uh you and karen your partner have

1219
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:37,440
done some

1220
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:40,079
you know specific work some specific

1221
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:41,839
products that might help that

1222
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:43,599
but the other aspect of that that you

1223
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:45,440
just touched on earlier that i find

1224
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:48,800
super powerful free easy

1225
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:52,560
low risk is just these accounts

1226
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:56,560
these accounts these heartfelt soul-felt

1227
00:42:01,109 --> 00:41:58,960
near-death experience accounts can be

1228
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:01,119
incredibly healing they've been healing

1229
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,960
for me but they've been healing to so

1230
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:04,720
many people that i've talked to

1231
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:08,079
so can you speak to that for a minute

1232
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:09,839
well you make a beautiful point there

1233
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:11,599
you know ken ring who is one of the

1234
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,880
founding

1235
00:42:16,190 --> 00:42:14,880
members of the international association

1236
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:16,200
of near-death studies back in the

1237
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:17,440
mid-1970s

1238
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:19,839
a few decades ago he wrote a paper about

1239
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:20,880
how

1240
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:24,800
influential just knowing about ndes

1241
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:25,920
studying ndes

1242
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:27,520
reading some of the stories or hearing

1243
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,520
them presented from an indy ear

1244
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:32,079
can have a very profound positive

1245
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:33,760
transformative effect

1246
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:36,800
on people who get that knowledge

1247
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:39,680
uh and karen and i realized early on in

1248
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:41,440
our collaboration beginning

1249
00:42:47,270 --> 00:42:44,720
a decade or so ago um that you really

1250
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:47,280
have to meet people where they are

1251
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:50,240
and don't expect people to you know come

1252
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:50,800
to me

1253
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:53,359
to hear my story but i've gotta share

1254
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:54,000
with them

1255
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:56,560
what they are ready to hear in in a way

1256
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:57,680
that can help them

1257
00:43:01,829 --> 00:43:00,240
to grow to the next level and that's

1258
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:01,839
always going to be through personal

1259
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,800
experience so

1260
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:04,480
and it's not just about sharing the

1261
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:06,240
stories uh but

1262
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:08,400
but encouraging people to develop a

1263
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:10,079
practice of going within

1264
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,760
as you realize that the modern

1265
00:43:15,829 --> 00:43:13,440
scientific

1266
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:15,839
model of consciousness is really one of

1267
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,359
one mind that we're really

1268
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,680
sharing one mind i like to uh say it's

1269
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:21,760
like the facets on a diamond

1270
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:23,760
the diamond is the one mind each one of

1271
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:25,280
us is a facet so we're

1272
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:27,520
we have slightly different perspectives

1273
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:29,200
of what is going on with the one mind

1274
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:30,800
but we're all contributing

1275
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,920
to the knowing of the one mind uh and

1276
00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:35,760
personal experience is a way of of

1277
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:36,800
gleaning that and

1278
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,720
especially like in our book living in a

1279
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:40,800
mind universe is we argue for objective

1280
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:41,839
idealism

1281
00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:43,520
you know the primacy of consciousness

1282
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:45,680
and we talk about the brain is a filter

1283
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:46,640
so it filters

1284
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,520
in this primordial mind but that's when

1285
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:51,680
you realize that going within mind is

1286
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,800
actually a way to go

1287
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:54,960
out into the universe that's why

1288
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:56,880
meditation centering prayer

1289
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:00,319
can be incredibly powerful gifts um

1290
00:44:05,670 --> 00:44:03,599
and so sacred acoustics uh

1291
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:05,680
is uh is karen's company as you point

1292
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:07,200
out and in fact i

1293
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:10,400
played a kind of a seminal role in

1294
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:11,040
getting

1295
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:13,040
she and her business partner kevin coste

1296
00:44:17,430 --> 00:44:14,319
to join together

1297
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,440
uh back in 2011 to start bringing

1298
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:19,680
these differential frequency brainwave

1299
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,359
entrainment tones

1300
00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:23,839
out to people because i was astonished

1301
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:25,200
at the power

1302
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:27,440
that they gave me and that included

1303
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:28,319
power to go

1304
00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:31,520
back into my nde and develop a much

1305
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:33,920
richer relationship so this was not just

1306
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:35,280
about recovering

1307
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:37,760
uh information about my nde as much as

1308
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:39,920
developing an ongoing relationship with

1309
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:40,800
the various

1310
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,680
uh kind of entities and denizens and uh

1311
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:44,960
that infinitely

1312
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,440
loving god force at the core of all that

1313
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:49,280
was all part of my

1314
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:51,839
meditative practice and yet i also

1315
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:54,800
realized karen had never had an nde

1316
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:58,240
and yet she had a profound sense of the

1317
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,560
uh

1318
00:45:01,589 --> 00:45:00,480
infinitely healing power of that loving

1319
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:01,599
force at the core

1320
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:04,319
from her own meditative experiences and

1321
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:04,960
so

1322
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:07,440
when i encouraged her and kevin to put

1323
00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:09,359
together this company's sacred acoustics

1324
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:10,800
and people can learn a lot more

1325
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:14,000
at sacredacoustics.com it was really

1326
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,480
to help share those tools and just to

1327
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:18,000
help your listeners understand why

1328
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:18,960
they're different

1329
00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:20,960
i would point out that every sound

1330
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,960
you've ever heard including a chant or

1331
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:24,560
anthem or hymn that might have

1332
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:26,960
influenced a you know a transition into

1333
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:27,599
a

1334
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,160
physicist

1335
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,640
uh it was binaural beats were used in

1336
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:58,640
the late 20th century to enhance

1337
00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:00,240
out-of-body experiences

1338
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:02,560
remote viewing things like that enhance

1339
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:04,960
transcendental non-local consciousness

1340
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:07,760
and uh that's what piqued my interest

1341
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:09,359
and i believe and this is something we

1342
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,640
go into more detail in

1343
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,160
in our book living and mindful universe

1344
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:14,480
to explain but i believe the mechanism

1345
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:16,800
is because those differential frequency

1346
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:19,040
sounds slightly different tones to the

1347
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:20,000
two ears

1348
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:21,839
are actually intersecting in the lower

1349
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:24,400
brain stem

1350
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:26,160
and that is a circuit that arose more

1351
00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:28,880
than 300 million years ago

1352
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:30,160
there's a general principle in

1353
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:32,000
evolutionary biology

1354
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:33,839
that if you want to more fully

1355
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:35,119
understand a function

1356
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:37,200
and an anatomic structure related to

1357
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:39,200
function you really want to look back

1358
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:41,440
through the evolution of that anatomy

1359
00:46:44,790 --> 00:46:43,839
uh going back millions of years if you

1360
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:44,800
can

1361
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:46,960
and when we do we find that these

1362
00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:48,960
differential frequency of

1363
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:51,280
sounds are are processed in the lower

1364
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:52,960
brain stem and the superior olivary

1365
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,560
nucleus complex

1366
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:56,640
and that gives them an opportunity to

1367
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:58,160
have a tremendous

1368
00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:01,440
modulatory role on ascending signals

1369
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:02,400
that we believe

1370
00:47:05,829 --> 00:47:04,319
govern kind of the modulation of

1371
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:05,839
consciousness in the

1372
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:08,640
in the neocortex that's the human part

1373
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:10,880
of consciousness all the details of

1374
00:47:13,030 --> 00:47:12,160
conscious awareness come from the

1375
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,040
neocortex

1376
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:14,960
but it's basically being driven from way

1377
00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:16,720
down at this lowest level i'm talking

1378
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:17,359
about

1379
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:19,040
and that's where we believe sacred

1380
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:21,040
acoustics and similar binaural be

1381
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:22,079
brainwave entrainment

1382
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:24,880
can have such a powerful effect at

1383
00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:26,240
liberating people

1384
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:28,640
uh from this kind of here and now and

1385
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:30,480
and bodily sense of self

1386
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:32,800
and being locked into a material world

1387
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:34,800
it's what allows our consciousness

1388
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:37,200
to really roam free just as it will be

1389
00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:38,000
set free

1390
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:40,240
when our physical brain and body die at

1391
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:42,160
the end of our physical life

1392
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:45,680
and uh so to have a kind of a leg up on

1393
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:46,160
this

1394
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:48,559
kind of exploring consciousness beyond

1395
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:50,319
the veil of the brain

1396
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:52,480
is a tremendous benefit and it's

1397
00:47:55,190 --> 00:47:53,920
something that we see over and over in

1398
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,200
our workshops

1399
00:47:59,349 --> 00:47:57,200
and i see it in a lot of the feedback

1400
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:59,359
karen gets on her sacred acoustics

1401
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:01,200
website she's got tens of thousands of

1402
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:02,800
people all around the world

1403
00:48:06,309 --> 00:48:04,559
using that technology for deep

1404
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:06,319
meditative experiences

1405
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:08,400
uh and it can bring extraordinary

1406
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:09,680
healing and uh

1407
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:12,000
i mean we we did participate with a

1408
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:14,240
psychiatrist in new york on a

1409
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:16,000
a pilot study that appeared in the

1410
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:17,839
journal of nervous and mental diseases

1411
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:21,119
in february 2020 it's by dr anna yousum

1412
00:48:25,829 --> 00:48:23,680
it was looking at sacred acoustics tones

1413
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:25,839
as a modality for alleviating

1414
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:29,200
uh anxiety and depression symptoms uh

1415
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:32,480
and in fact this uh this study that dr

1416
00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:34,160
yousem performed

1417
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:37,599
showed a 26 reduction uh

1418
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:40,720
in anxiety symptoms over two weeks uh

1419
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:42,720
listening to the tones combined with

1420
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:43,760
talk therapy

1421
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:48,240
only a seven percent reduction so that's

1422
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:49,599
a pretty dramatic

1423
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:51,680
uh effect and and when you read the

1424
00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:53,520
qualitative reports in our study

1425
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:55,599
you find even more kind of interesting

1426
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:57,200
evidence of kind of the transcendental

1427
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:57,920
nature of

1428
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:01,119
these experiences and how people

1429
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:02,480
have benefited from this kind of

1430
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:04,319
meditative practice even though it can

1431
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:05,599
be very simple

1432
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:07,520
uh and i think that that is where

1433
00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:09,440
there's extraordinary power

1434
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:12,160
uh the only other point i'd like to make

1435
00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:13,839
kind of along those same lines

1436
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:16,000
is there's also a big literature coming

1437
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:16,960
up lately

1438
00:49:21,270 --> 00:49:19,520
in addiction medicine treating uh some

1439
00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:21,280
of the worst addictions and also

1440
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:22,880
treating fear of death and cancer

1441
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:23,599
patients

1442
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:26,160
using psilocybin magic mushrooms the

1443
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:27,839
interesting thing is you only need one

1444
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:30,319
or two doses of the mushroom so

1445
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:33,280
it's not as if you need psilocybin in

1446
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:34,160
your system

1447
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:36,400
on a regular daily basis to accomplish

1448
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:38,000
these extraordinary goals of

1449
00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:39,440
getting rid of fear of death and

1450
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:41,599
defeating addiction what you need is the

1451
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:43,200
proper therapeutic setting

1452
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,599
what i would argue is that is just

1453
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:47,040
another example of

1454
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:50,319
traversing the veil getting in closer

1455
00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:52,000
touch with your higher soul

1456
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:55,119
uh with that primordial mind uh in ways

1457
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:55,520
that

1458
00:49:59,349 --> 00:49:58,319
indy ears have done you know for

1459
00:50:01,030 --> 00:49:59,359
millennia

1460
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:01,040
uh that coming in touch with that

1461
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:03,599
oneness has a tremendous power to heal

1462
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:04,880
us in this life

1463
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:07,760
and likewise i would say that those uh

1464
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:09,040
kind of psilocybin

1465
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:11,760
experiments with fear of death and with

1466
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:13,040
um

1467
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:15,520
addictions is just showing us the power

1468
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:16,880
of our higher soul

1469
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:19,119
and free will to do this you're using

1470
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:21,280
the psilocybin as a catalyst

1471
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:23,440
i would argue that you can easily use

1472
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:25,280
binaural brainwave entrainment

1473
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,319
to get at least as far if not further so

1474
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:30,559
it's a very important modality

1475
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:32,640
to help us in healing coming into better

1476
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,839
mental health

1477
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:35,680
coming into more alignment and i believe

1478
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:37,520
ultimately

1479
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:40,160
much more radical healing like you would

1480
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:42,240
find on the institute of noetic sciences

1481
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:44,640
website if you put in the search term

1482
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:47,040
spontaneous remission and uncover that

1483
00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:50,079
book they published in 1995 with 3 500

1484
00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:50,960
cases

1485
00:50:56,790 --> 00:50:54,160
of curing of cancer infections

1486
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:56,800
other things beyond any expectation of

1487
00:50:59,990 --> 00:50:58,480
medical intervention

1488
00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:00,000
and i believe that that is the way of

1489
00:51:04,549 --> 00:51:01,760
the future our healing our

1490
00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:04,559
medical arts are going to change

1491
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:06,800
dramatically over the next few decades

1492
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:09,920
because of the true power of our mind

1493
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:11,680
over matter to heal and bring us more

1494
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:13,359
into wholeness

1495
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:14,640
yeah and the great thing about the bone

1496
00:51:18,549 --> 00:51:16,400
marrow beets is

1497
00:51:20,950 --> 00:51:18,559
safe i mean you're just listening to

1498
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:20,960
something easy

1499
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:23,280
inexpensive i mean it kind of hits all

1500
00:51:26,309 --> 00:51:24,960
the all the things there

1501
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:26,319
the one thing and i can't remember if it

1502
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:28,160
was from reading it

1503
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:31,359
in your guy's book or someplace else

1504
00:51:35,589 --> 00:51:34,319
but i thought uh the hypothesis for why

1505
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:35,599
it might work

1506
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:37,119
is interesting that if you have two

1507
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:38,559
different frequencies playing in two

1508
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:40,000
different

1509
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,200
that primordial

1510
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:45,760
brain and it's trying to resolve it at

1511
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:46,960
some point it just goes

1512
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:48,800
oh to heck with it and kind of gets out

1513
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:50,559
of the way kind of thing to put it in

1514
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:51,359
simple terms

1515
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:53,280
do you have any quick thoughts on that

1516
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:55,040
well i would say essentially what you're

1517
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:55,599
doing

1518
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,480
is you're kind of giving it another task

1519
00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:00,640
you're taking all that circuitry

1520
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:02,800
in the brain that involves you know

1521
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:04,559
ignition circuits in the lower brain

1522
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:06,640
stem 40 times per second

1523
00:52:10,549 --> 00:52:08,960
firing these now signals to coordinate

1524
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:10,559
the phlegm of cortical loops

1525
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:12,480
that whole engine of consciousness and

1526
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:14,160
of course the ultimate details of

1527
00:52:18,309 --> 00:52:15,040
consciousness

1528
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:18,319
depend entirely on the neocortex

1529
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:19,680
you know everything we see in the

1530
00:52:23,109 --> 00:52:21,280
occipital lobes everything we hear in

1531
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:23,119
the acoustic cortex our

1532
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:25,119
planning bodily position all these

1533
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:27,280
things in parietal and frontal lobes

1534
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:30,400
every bit of that uh is this machine

1535
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,160
that we're kind of used to being in

1536
00:52:35,589 --> 00:52:34,480
and what these binaural beats do i

1537
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:35,599
believe is at a very

1538
00:52:39,349 --> 00:52:38,000
deep level they kind of disconnect your

1539
00:52:40,309 --> 00:52:39,359
conscious awareness from all that

1540
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:40,319
machinery

1541
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:42,079
and that is why they were useful for

1542
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:43,440
things like remote viewing

1543
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:45,520
out of body experiences as shown in the

1544
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:46,880
late 20th century

1545
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,400
and i believe that's exactly what's

1546
00:52:52,710 --> 00:52:50,640
going on here and uh i've learned to

1547
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:52,720
ride those tones beautifully it's a

1548
00:52:56,309 --> 00:52:55,280
very powerful technique uh and and i

1549
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:56,319
mean what you're trying to do

1550
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:57,280
essentially is

1551
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:59,200
take the little voice in your head you

1552
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,640
know so many of us identify with a

1553
00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:02,079
little running stream of thoughts in our

1554
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:02,640
head

1555
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:04,960
well never forget i love how michael

1556
00:53:07,589 --> 00:53:06,240
singer calls that

1557
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,599
stream of thoughts in our head the

1558
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:10,400
annoying roommate because it's it's that

1559
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:12,000
you know it's a parlor trick

1560
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:14,160
uh that is not your consciousness that

1561
00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:16,000
is not the deep and profound mystery of

1562
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:16,880
consciousness

1563
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,000
that profound mystery is the awareness

1564
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:21,839
and it's because in many ways the

1565
00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:23,920
universe is self-aware

1566
00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:26,079
and we that's called the mental layer of

1567
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:27,760
the universe and it's universal it's

1568
00:53:33,829 --> 00:53:29,839
been there since before the big bang

1569
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:33,839
and that is what we can tap into

1570
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:37,359
and uh that's what we do by

1571
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:40,880
basically uh kind of monotonizing this

1572
00:53:44,950 --> 00:53:42,800
machinery that normally keeps us in the

1573
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:44,960
here and now and sense itself

1574
00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:46,800
and that allows our conscious awareness

1575
00:53:50,309 --> 00:53:48,319
to really uh

1576
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,319
go places and that's where we start to

1577
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,920
realize much of our connection with the

1578
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:53,280
rest of the universe

1579
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:56,000
the information we can glean and also a

1580
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:56,640
much

1581
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:58,800
richer sense of kind of free will and

1582
00:54:02,710 --> 00:53:59,680
our ability

1583
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:02,720
to influence our evolving reality uh you

1584
00:54:05,030 --> 00:54:03,200
know you can

1585
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:05,040
easily argue if you're stuck in your ego

1586
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:06,480
mind all the time of course you don't

1587
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:07,440
have free will

1588
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:11,200
you're an automaton but by engaging your

1589
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,839
basically primordial mind by engaging

1590
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:15,520
the mind of the universe that we all

1591
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:18,000
share you start to reach a point where

1592
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:19,200
you're actually

1593
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,400
uh able to manifest a free will that can

1594
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:24,000
have tremendous influence on your

1595
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:27,200
life and on the evolving uh

1596
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:29,040
kind of human awareness and

1597
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:30,880
consciousness and kind of

1598
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,800
the mission of humanity will change

1599
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:34,640
dramatically as we realize

1600
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:37,280
this unification i mean i mentioned a

1601
00:54:40,069 --> 00:54:38,079
little while ago

1602
00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:40,079
the damage done to this world by the

1603
00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:41,920
false sense of separation

1604
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:43,760
uh that comes from materialist thinking

1605
00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:44,880
you know it's right there at the heart

1606
00:54:48,069 --> 00:54:46,319
of reductive materialism

1607
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:48,079
break it all down into the parts

1608
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:50,000
understand how those parts interact

1609
00:54:53,349 --> 00:54:51,280
and then you can understand the whole

1610
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:53,359
world well that assumes that

1611
00:54:58,549 --> 00:54:56,720
you know electrons protons quarks

1612
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:58,559
all these things dancing around

1613
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:00,480
following the laws of physics

1614
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:03,839
uh give us the events of human lives

1615
00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:06,240
well no that's not true because there is

1616
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:08,799
a set of top-down causal principles that

1617
00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:09,280
are far

1618
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:12,240
more important in determining the events

1619
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:13,760
that unfold around us

1620
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:16,720
and that top-down causality is something

1621
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:18,400
that comes from that mental layer of the

1622
00:55:20,789 --> 00:55:19,200
universe

1623
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,799
and for those interested in the quantum

1624
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:22,640
physics aspect of that i would steer you

1625
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:23,440
to the writings

1626
00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:25,839
of george f r ellis the south african

1627
00:55:28,789 --> 00:55:26,799
mathematician

1628
00:55:30,150 --> 00:55:28,799
who's written extensively about top down

1629
00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:30,160
causality

1630
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:32,480
in quantum systems but i believe that is

1631
00:55:37,910 --> 00:55:34,400
really kind of the heart of where you go

1632
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:37,920
with objective idealism filter theory

1633
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:41,839
uh and then uh kind of that notion of

1634
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:43,920
of top-down causality and how it

1635
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:46,240
manifests in this world

1636
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:48,079
and there's a tremendous amount of

1637
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:49,760
potential for that kind of a worldview

1638
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:51,359
to expand this is something

1639
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,880
that we call the primordial mind

1640
00:55:56,789 --> 00:55:54,880
hypothesis we talk about it

1641
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:56,799
uh in chapter five of living in mindful

1642
00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:58,799
universe but a lot of my thinking on it

1643
00:56:01,670 --> 00:56:00,720
has advanced since that book came out so

1644
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:01,680
i believe

1645
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:03,520
it probably is time to write another

1646
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:05,119
book

1647
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:06,720
great well i want to talk about that in

1648
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:07,920
just a minute i want to know what's

1649
00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:09,200
what's coming up for you but i

1650
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:11,040
i can't leave that last part without

1651
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:12,720
touching on a couple things one i have a

1652
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:14,720
ton of respect and love michael singer i

1653
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:16,319
think he's i think he's wonderful

1654
00:56:22,150 --> 00:56:19,280
and i love the yogic approach and uh

1655
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:22,160
your explanation for the binaural beats

1656
00:56:26,950 --> 00:56:25,040
potentially hypothetically how the how

1657
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:26,960
they might be working on a more

1658
00:56:30,069 --> 00:56:28,960
neurophysical level kind of thing i

1659
00:56:31,270 --> 00:56:30,079
thought it was so awesome

1660
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:31,280
and it connects with me because i'm a

1661
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:33,599
long time kind of yoga practitioner and

1662
00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:35,280
michael singer has that background you

1663
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:37,040
know so many other people but

1664
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:40,240
early on in you know the asana kind of

1665
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:40,640
thing

1666
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:44,480
i had a really good teacher and it was

1667
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:47,520
the same kind of thing like okay now

1668
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:50,240
move your left toe here while you do

1669
00:56:52,789 --> 00:56:52,079
your hip and see the energy this length

1670
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:52,799
is

1671
00:56:57,430 --> 00:56:55,359
a bunch of instructions for what purpose

1672
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:57,440
till finally your mind goes oh to heck

1673
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:59,280
with it i can't keep track of

1674
00:57:02,789 --> 00:57:00,880
all these physical things that are going

1675
00:57:06,150 --> 00:57:02,799
on and boom that's

1676
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:06,160
when that little shift opens up and

1677
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:07,680
so i thought the way that you connected

1678
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:11,119
that is it hypothetically is super super

1679
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:12,880
interesting and i think people that have

1680
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:14,160
gone there

1681
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,920
in that kind of in any kind of different

1682
00:57:18,789 --> 00:57:17,440
modality where they've gotten that heck

1683
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:18,799
you can get there by driving

1684
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,480
don't do this but you know by driving a

1685
00:57:23,829 --> 00:57:22,319
daydream you kind of get to

1686
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:23,839
some of that same effect so that's

1687
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:25,520
fantastic but let me ask you this

1688
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:26,559
because you just

1689
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:30,240
you teed it up what is

1690
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:33,520
in the future for dr evan alexander

1691
00:57:36,230 --> 00:57:34,640
where are you going i'm sure there's

1692
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:36,240
more books i'm sure there's you're

1693
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:38,559
connecting with so many people

1694
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:41,280
and you're bringing us this kind of

1695
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:43,359
reporting from the frontier because you

1696
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:44,960
are connected with so many folks

1697
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:46,640
i'm sure you're going to continue to do

1698
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:48,880
that but what are your plans for the

1699
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:50,240
future

1700
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:52,079
well i can tell you in the near term

1701
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:53,680
karen and i are very busy we're

1702
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:55,920
participating in a certain competition

1703
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:57,520
that i'm sure

1704
00:58:01,829 --> 00:57:58,880
many of your listeners are probably

1705
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:01,839
aware of uh the bigelow institute of

1706
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:04,559
consciousness studies in las vegas is

1707
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:05,839
organizing

1708
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:09,280
um basically an essay competition

1709
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:13,200
um to for the best essay supporting the

1710
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:16,960
scientific uh evidence that uh

1711
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:19,680
there's an afterlife and uh i find that

1712
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:22,160
absolutely fascinating i think

1713
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:24,960
the evidence is really there it's strong

1714
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:25,760
enough now that

1715
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:27,839
anybody who pursues the evidence will

1716
00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:30,000
come to the conclusion

1717
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:32,400
that the afterlife is more likely than

1718
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:33,520
not

1719
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:35,200
and so we're very excited about that

1720
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:37,280
competition it kind of dovetails into a

1721
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:38,640
lot of our other

1722
00:58:42,789 --> 00:58:41,920
uh kind of projects moving forward but i

1723
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:42,799
believe that

1724
00:58:48,829 --> 00:58:46,880
uh i i can confess that since uh

1725
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:48,839
living in a mindful universe came out in

1726
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:50,400
2017 uh

1727
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:53,520
i've really uh come to kind of a deeper

1728
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:55,440
understanding in my own mind that i

1729
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:58,319
i believe in uh looking at how brain and

1730
00:59:01,589 --> 00:58:59,280
mind connect

1731
00:59:04,549 --> 00:59:01,599
in uh you know in the brain in a way

1732
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:04,559
that would support this filter theory

1733
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:07,280
and notion of primordial consciousness

1734
00:59:09,510 --> 00:59:07,920
and all

1735
00:59:11,829 --> 00:59:09,520
and that's where i really want to go

1736
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:11,839
next and this involves collaboration

1737
00:59:14,470 --> 00:59:12,720
with

1738
00:59:16,270 --> 00:59:14,480
scientists around the world i do a lot

1739
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:16,280
of work as i mentioned earlier with

1740
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:17,760
galileocommission.org

1741
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:19,839
some of the other investigators there

1742
00:59:23,109 --> 00:59:21,810
and i really think that that is

1743
00:59:25,750 --> 00:59:23,119
[Music]

1744
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:25,760
a major next step because one of the

1745
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:26,559
tremendous

1746
00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:28,400
hurdles to the scientific community

1747
00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:30,319
getting on board with all this

1748
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:32,240
uh has just been that kind of missing

1749
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:33,680
link of connection

1750
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:36,880
uh at the brained mind level of uh

1751
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:38,880
what all is going on and what most

1752
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:40,559
people get trapped into

1753
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:42,880
is they keep following the material side

1754
00:59:45,829 --> 00:59:43,680
and the brain

1755
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:45,839
side and thinking that is going to lead

1756
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:47,359
us there where you actually have to take

1757
00:59:50,069 --> 00:59:48,160
the lead

1758
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:50,079
of phenomenal experience and of

1759
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:51,680
consciousness itself

1760
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:53,200
and i believe when we come at it from

1761
00:59:55,430 --> 00:59:54,960
that direction and that includes this

1762
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:55,440
much

1763
00:59:59,589 --> 00:59:57,839
bigger uh kind of expression of

1764
01:00:03,349 --> 00:59:59,599
consciousness of afterlife

1765
01:00:05,510 --> 01:00:03,359
reincarnation all of it writ large and

1766
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:05,520
present through your models but that's

1767
01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:07,200
what i really would like to do in the

1768
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:09,040
next few years is come up with a

1769
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:10,799
much better explanation of kind of the

1770
01:00:15,670 --> 01:00:13,200
hypothetical possibilities

1771
01:00:17,109 --> 01:00:15,680
for the scientific community to to

1772
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:17,119
relieve us of the shackles of

1773
01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:18,960
materialism and that's where i'd

1774
01:00:23,349 --> 01:00:21,359
hope i would go next i'm i'm not sure

1775
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:23,359
exactly i'm sure this bigelow project

1776
01:00:27,829 --> 01:00:25,280
will lead us into a lot of interesting

1777
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:27,839
kind of territory uh but from my point

1778
01:00:33,349 --> 01:00:30,240
of view the real gift to the world

1779
01:00:36,150 --> 01:00:33,359
and the one that absolutely will help

1780
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:36,160
this help humanity to grow into this

1781
01:00:39,750 --> 01:00:37,040
awakening

1782
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,760
would be a better uh kind of nuts and

1783
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:41,520
bolts explanation

1784
01:00:45,109 --> 01:00:44,240
of from a neuroscientist about what is

1785
01:00:47,430 --> 01:00:45,119
going on

1786
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:47,440
with this kind of idea of primordial

1787
01:00:50,950 --> 01:00:48,160
mind

1788
01:00:52,390 --> 01:00:50,960
uh of objective idealism or analytic

1789
01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:52,400
idealism

1790
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:54,240
how is it really working and how can we

1791
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:56,000
all interact with

1792
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:57,280
that kind of mental layer of the

1793
01:01:02,390 --> 01:00:59,760
universe to

1794
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:02,400
really bring the uh the dreams of our

1795
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:03,200
higher soul

1796
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:05,040
into fruition that's essentially what

1797
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:07,359
this is about is coming into

1798
01:01:13,990 --> 01:01:10,799
humankind's potential which i think

1799
01:01:17,349 --> 01:01:14,000
the beliefs of our modern society are

1800
01:01:19,109 --> 01:01:17,359
incredibly falsely restricting uh as to

1801
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:19,119
what is possible for humans to

1802
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:20,000
accomplish

1803
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:22,319
and i think the more we investigate you

1804
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:24,240
know a deep meditation centering prayer

1805
01:01:27,510 --> 01:01:26,079
the different modalities of

1806
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,520
kind of getting into deep conscious

1807
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:29,760
awareness and the information systems of

1808
01:01:34,630 --> 01:01:31,599
the universe and then being able

1809
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:34,640
to uh use that in terms of our free will

1810
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:35,520
of

1811
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:39,839
is where this whole world can change

1812
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:42,240
dramatically i mean from my point of

1813
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:43,119
view this

1814
01:01:46,630 --> 01:01:45,359
shift of understanding is uh

1815
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:46,640
irreversible

1816
01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:49,119
and i know i i in fact i recently

1817
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:51,440
rewatched your uh

1818
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:54,160
uh interview with uh with bruce grayson

1819
01:01:56,549 --> 01:01:55,760
and i also had seen the one with steve

1820
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:56,559
taylor

1821
01:02:02,470 --> 01:01:59,680
uh not too long ago um and

1822
01:02:04,470 --> 01:02:02,480
i believe that uh the world needs this i

1823
01:02:06,309 --> 01:02:04,480
mean we are in deep trouble

1824
01:02:08,309 --> 01:02:06,319
but the materialist model very

1825
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:08,319
self-centered egocentric uh

1826
01:02:12,150 --> 01:02:10,079
you know kind of completely out of

1827
01:02:13,589 --> 01:02:12,160
balance economic and social systems

1828
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:13,599
judicial systems

1829
01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:15,839
all of it is a reflection of the false

1830
01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:17,359
sense of separation that comes out of

1831
01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:18,640
materialist thought

1832
01:02:26,230 --> 01:02:22,240
and so in so many ways we will do a far

1833
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:26,240
better job and truly become homo sapiens

1834
01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:28,960
sapiens means wise well when i look

1835
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:29,839
around at a

1836
01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:32,640
fossil a fuel addicted world that's with

1837
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:34,880
35 000 species on the verge of

1838
01:02:38,549 --> 01:02:35,920
extinction

1839
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:38,559
of a plastic geyer twice the size of

1840
01:02:41,029 --> 01:02:39,200
texas

1841
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:41,039
floating in the eastern pacific ocean

1842
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:42,960
from all the discarded plastic bags

1843
01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:45,440
i don't see a very wise species in

1844
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:46,319
charge

1845
01:02:50,309 --> 01:02:48,240
and i think that we owe it to this

1846
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:50,319
planet to the blessing of our very

1847
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:51,280
existence

1848
01:02:55,029 --> 01:02:54,000
to rise to the occasion to come out of

1849
01:02:57,589 --> 01:02:55,039
this absolute

1850
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:57,599
madness of materialist thought that has

1851
01:03:02,069 --> 01:02:59,839
led us into such a dark abyss

1852
01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:02,079
it is time to awaken to the true

1853
01:03:06,710 --> 01:03:03,680
potential of humanity

1854
01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:06,720
and truly become homo sapiens for the

1855
01:03:10,390 --> 01:03:07,280
first

1856
01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:10,400
time so i am going to do everything i

1857
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:11,520
can

1858
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:13,920
to help this world wake up to this far

1859
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:15,039
deeper truth

1860
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:18,720
and the importance of our responsibility

1861
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:21,599
to ourselves to each other to future

1862
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:23,119
generations and of course when you

1863
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:23,920
review that

1864
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:26,079
reincarnation literature you can start

1865
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:28,000
getting a little bit selfish about that

1866
01:03:31,829 --> 01:03:29,119
because our own

1867
01:03:33,589 --> 01:03:31,839
some aspect of this awareness is going

1868
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:33,599
to be living in another body in the

1869
01:03:36,470 --> 01:03:34,319
future

1870
01:03:37,510 --> 01:03:36,480
and we need to do a good job of making

1871
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:37,520
sure this planet

1872
01:03:41,190 --> 01:03:40,240
is not completely wrecked for future

1873
01:03:44,789 --> 01:03:41,200
generations

1874
01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:44,799
you are incredibly uh powerful

1875
01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:47,839
spokesman uh for this message and i'm

1876
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:48,319
i'm

1877
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:54,079
for the work that you're doing i do pull

1878
01:03:57,029 --> 01:03:56,160
up a little bit on the last part of what

1879
01:03:58,390 --> 01:03:57,039
you're saying

1880
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:58,400
and i want to just i was going to let

1881
01:04:00,950 --> 01:03:59,520
you go and then i want to kind of

1882
01:04:01,349 --> 01:04:00,960
squeeze one more question in there and

1883
01:04:04,789 --> 01:04:01,359
that's

1884
01:04:08,549 --> 01:04:04,799
it and you totally get this

1885
01:04:11,670 --> 01:04:08,559
but like from a spiritual standpoint

1886
01:04:12,390 --> 01:04:11,680
the doing stuff kind of takes a back

1887
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:12,400
seat

1888
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:14,640
you know which is essentially the most

1889
01:04:18,950 --> 01:04:15,920
important part of your message

1890
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:18,960
is about love compassion being there

1891
01:04:23,270 --> 01:04:19,839
about

1892
01:04:24,230 --> 01:04:23,280
the light is infinitely more powerful

1893
01:04:26,549 --> 01:04:24,240
than the dark

1894
01:04:28,470 --> 01:04:26,559
you know and i focus plenty on the dark

1895
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:28,480
because i don't want to ignore the dark

1896
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:32,000
but i don't for a minute really concern

1897
01:04:35,109 --> 01:04:33,119
myself

1898
01:04:37,349 --> 01:04:35,119
at that level i'm you know i love the

1899
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:37,359
quote from amma the hugging saint you

1900
01:04:41,029 --> 01:04:38,160
know which is

1901
01:04:42,549 --> 01:04:41,039
works tirelessly to try and do

1902
01:04:45,109 --> 01:04:42,559
everything to help the world and she's

1903
01:04:46,789 --> 01:04:45,119
in india digging with the you know

1904
01:04:48,789 --> 01:04:46,799
untouchables digging women

1905
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:48,799
latrines at 18 hours a day and just how

1906
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:50,000
does she have that energy

1907
01:04:53,029 --> 01:04:52,319
and then her devotees go gee but you

1908
01:04:55,349 --> 01:04:53,039
said

1909
01:04:57,430 --> 01:04:55,359
you know that we're not about this world

1910
01:05:00,630 --> 01:04:57,440
why you put all your energies into it

1911
01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:00,640
and she goes world what world

1912
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:04,240
you know she is in the biblical sense

1913
01:05:07,589 --> 01:05:06,400
in this world but not of that world of

1914
01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:07,599
this world

1915
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,480
and i don't see a conflict at all with

1916
01:05:15,190 --> 01:05:12,480
what you're saying

1917
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:15,200
but it is a subtle kind of shift i mean

1918
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:17,039
the compassion that we have to

1919
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:18,559
have and i think you're totally down

1920
01:05:24,549 --> 01:05:20,880
with this for everyone

1921
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:24,559
for all the people who are the

1922
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:26,880
not maybe doing the best thing or don't

1923
01:05:31,270 --> 01:05:28,000
seem to be acting

1924
01:05:33,029 --> 01:05:31,280
in the interest of the whole they're not

1925
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:33,039
separate either you know what any

1926
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:35,039
thoughts on that as we wrap it up

1927
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:37,680
well i have a lot of thoughts on that

1928
01:05:43,109 --> 01:05:40,319
but i think essentially just to try and

1929
01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:43,119
uh boil it down uh you know the deep

1930
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:45,280
truth that near-death experiencers

1931
01:05:49,029 --> 01:05:47,200
come back with the blessing in their

1932
01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:49,039
lives is really

1933
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:51,520
realization that love binds us all

1934
01:05:55,430 --> 01:05:52,880
together it binds

1935
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:55,440
uh all souls to the universe at large we

1936
01:05:59,109 --> 01:05:56,480
can trust

1937
01:06:01,109 --> 01:05:59,119
in a very loving universe at the core of

1938
01:06:03,029 --> 01:06:01,119
our of our existence that's the deep

1939
01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:03,039
lesson of ndes

1940
01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:05,359
and of course the important thing that i

1941
01:06:10,309 --> 01:06:06,240
would stress

1942
01:06:11,910 --> 01:06:10,319
is it's not so much uh crucial to

1943
01:06:13,430 --> 01:06:11,920
you know the lessons they give us about

1944
01:06:13,990 --> 01:06:13,440
what happens when we die of course

1945
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:14,000
that's

1946
01:06:19,589 --> 01:06:17,200
helpful but far more important is

1947
01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:19,599
of how indie ears would express that

1948
01:06:23,349 --> 01:06:20,720
their journey

1949
01:06:23,990 --> 01:06:23,359
showed them how to live this life day to

1950
01:06:25,670 --> 01:06:24,000
day

1951
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:25,680
every choice how they view their

1952
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:27,760
relationship with themselves

1953
01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:30,720
with the universe with other beings this

1954
01:06:34,870 --> 01:06:31,599
is where

1955
01:06:38,230 --> 01:06:34,880
we can really uh kind of improve

1956
01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:38,240
and expand our human experience

1957
01:06:41,910 --> 01:06:40,880
uh it's and it's by the work we do here

1958
01:06:44,230 --> 01:06:41,920
in this world

1959
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:44,240
that's why it's so crucial to realize

1960
01:06:48,470 --> 01:06:46,000
and and that's why reincarnation

1961
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:48,480
is absolutely essential if you miss the

1962
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:50,400
piece of reincarnation you're absolutely

1963
01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:51,200
missing

1964
01:06:55,750 --> 01:06:54,079
the growth that occurs over time the the

1965
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:55,760
progress of souls

1966
01:07:02,630 --> 01:06:59,280
uh and and reincarnation is a a

1967
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:02,640
story that helps us get to a much deeper

1968
01:07:06,549 --> 01:07:03,280
truth

1969
01:07:08,950 --> 01:07:06,559
but it also points out that the the true

1970
01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:08,960
work of soul growth occurs here in these

1971
01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:09,920
bodies

1972
01:07:13,349 --> 01:07:12,000
even temporarily dumbed down in

1973
01:07:15,029 --> 01:07:13,359
believing that this is the only

1974
01:07:16,950 --> 01:07:15,039
existence there is

1975
01:07:18,150 --> 01:07:16,960
um you know our higher soul knows

1976
01:07:20,710 --> 01:07:18,160
differently from that but

1977
01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:20,720
uh you know we we kind of buy into that

1978
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:22,240
and as long as we don't get too sucked

1979
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:23,760
into the ego side of it

1980
01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:26,079
we can start appreciating this this

1981
01:07:27,990 --> 01:07:27,760
benefit of helping others and being

1982
01:07:30,630 --> 01:07:28,000
there

1983
01:07:31,829 --> 01:07:30,640
for others and alex i think the biggest

1984
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:31,839
uh

1985
01:07:37,029 --> 01:07:34,799
shift of certainly a major shift will be

1986
01:07:39,589 --> 01:07:37,039
how we treat our fellow human beings

1987
01:07:41,109 --> 01:07:39,599
but another absolutely essential piece

1988
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:41,119
of this is realizing

1989
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:44,640
you know homo sapiens doesn't have uh

1990
01:07:49,589 --> 01:07:48,160
you know a primary claim to spiritual

1991
01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:49,599
life and the spiritual nature of the

1992
01:07:55,109 --> 01:07:51,920
universe the entire animal world

1993
01:07:56,150 --> 01:07:55,119
uh plant kingdom every bit of it is part

1994
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:56,160
of the spiritual

1995
01:07:59,349 --> 01:07:58,079
universe within consciousness within

1996
01:08:01,829 --> 01:07:59,359
this one mind of

1997
01:08:02,870 --> 01:08:01,839
infinitely bound together through love

1998
01:08:05,510 --> 01:08:02,880
and that's why we

1999
01:08:06,069 --> 01:08:05,520
we have a tremendous amount of kind of

2000
01:08:08,309 --> 01:08:06,079
growth

2001
01:08:09,670 --> 01:08:08,319
and transformation that society needs to

2002
01:08:12,230 --> 01:08:09,680
go through

2003
01:08:13,829 --> 01:08:12,240
to fully awaken and assimilate these

2004
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:13,839
kind of deep and profound truths

2005
01:08:17,910 --> 01:08:15,760
but they're really about how we live in

2006
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:17,920
this world i think that's a fantastic

2007
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,400
point particularly in the broader

2008
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:22,560
understanding of consciousness and i

2009
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:23,759
want you to go into that in a minute you

2010
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:24,880
know

2011
01:08:30,550 --> 01:08:28,719
dolphins are conscience

2012
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:30,560
conscious so you know you go down the

2013
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:32,239
list and then why would we draw some

2014
01:08:36,870 --> 01:08:34,080
arbitrary line and think it's

2015
01:08:38,789 --> 01:08:36,880
all it's all part of this soup but but

2016
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:38,799
if i can i i want to kind of make sure

2017
01:08:42,229 --> 01:08:40,960
i i make the point so you can address it

2018
01:08:45,030 --> 01:08:42,239
we started with

2019
01:08:46,709 --> 01:08:45,040
ram das and neem karoli baba and i love

2020
01:08:48,309 --> 01:08:46,719
this story about neem crowley baba

2021
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:48,319
that maybe gets more to my point and

2022
01:08:51,669 --> 01:08:50,080
he's talking about

2023
01:08:55,110 --> 01:08:51,679
you know all these westerners who are

2024
01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:55,120
coming to see him this is ram das

2025
01:08:59,030 --> 01:08:57,359
guru that's a kind of an outdated term

2026
01:09:01,189 --> 01:08:59,040
but he's the guy who really kind of

2027
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:01,199
leads him on this

2028
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:03,120
spiritually transformative experience

2029
01:09:07,829 --> 01:09:05,359
because he's really kind of

2030
01:09:09,910 --> 01:09:07,839
in the way that we're all messed up he's

2031
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:09,920
really kind of has a lot of

2032
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:13,040
issues you know in his life and

2033
01:09:16,550 --> 01:09:15,279
neem crowley baba is transformative and

2034
01:09:19,110 --> 01:09:16,560
he's the first one to say that

2035
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:19,120
completely transformative but

2036
01:09:22,950 --> 01:09:22,080
neem crowley baba says you westerners

2037
01:09:26,789 --> 01:09:22,960
are all about

2038
01:09:29,990 --> 01:09:26,799
doing making doing he goes those

2039
01:09:30,709 --> 01:09:30,000
guys up in the caves those gurus those

2040
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:30,719
sadhus

2041
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:33,600
up in the cave that are sitting there

2042
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:34,000
they're

2043
01:09:39,669 --> 01:09:36,960
keeping the planet spinning and i'm sure

2044
01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:39,679
he's talking about that metaphorically

2045
01:09:44,470 --> 01:09:42,480
but the point is i just pull up short

2046
01:09:46,950 --> 01:09:44,480
when we start talking about doing and

2047
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:46,960
we have to do and we got to reduce that

2048
01:09:51,910 --> 01:09:48,799
plastic thing in the

2049
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:51,920
in the ocean of course we do but we just

2050
01:09:57,030 --> 01:09:52,560
have to be

2051
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:57,040
smile at that woman who's

2052
01:10:01,990 --> 01:09:59,840
wearing a mask driving alone in her car

2053
01:10:05,189 --> 01:10:02,000
and doesn't understand the science

2054
01:10:07,990 --> 01:10:05,199
of how that's a complete sham

2055
01:10:08,310 --> 01:10:08,000
but we can't hate on it we just have to

2056
01:10:10,229 --> 01:10:08,320
have

2057
01:10:12,790 --> 01:10:10,239
love and compassion and the more that we

2058
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:12,800
can face the people that we don't

2059
01:10:16,070 --> 01:10:14,880
necessarily agree with with that love

2060
01:10:19,110 --> 01:10:16,080
and compassion

2061
01:10:20,550 --> 01:10:19,120
you know that's the healing too so i'd

2062
01:10:22,870 --> 01:10:20,560
throw out out there

2063
01:10:23,590 --> 01:10:22,880
i would say you're absolutely right on

2064
01:10:26,470 --> 01:10:23,600
the beam

2065
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:26,480
and uh you know early on in all these

2066
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:28,640
discussions after my ndes i was trying

2067
01:10:32,070 --> 01:10:30,239
to come to a deeper understanding of it

2068
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:32,080
all trying to explain to people trying

2069
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:33,600
to come up with a shift in world view

2070
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:34,880
that made sense

2071
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:38,000
i remember karen pointed out to me very

2072
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:39,120
brilliantly

2073
01:10:46,229 --> 01:10:42,560
that really all we are here to do is to

2074
01:10:49,510 --> 01:10:46,239
be the love that we are

2075
01:10:50,709 --> 01:10:49,520
and when i fully absorb the depth of

2076
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:50,719
what she was

2077
01:10:54,630 --> 01:10:53,040
telling me it was not an act of loving

2078
01:10:56,470 --> 01:10:54,640
or you know

2079
01:10:58,790 --> 01:10:56,480
all of that kind of machination well how

2080
01:11:01,189 --> 01:10:58,800
do i love myself how do i love others

2081
01:11:02,550 --> 01:11:01,199
but becoming that love and that that is

2082
01:11:05,110 --> 01:11:02,560
something i was

2083
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:05,120
very used to from my core experience

2084
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,320
deep in my nde

2085
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:08,480
in that sanctum sanctum of the divine

2086
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:10,400
becoming one with that infinitely

2087
01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:11,120
healing

2088
01:11:14,550 --> 01:11:13,679
force of love that god force is

2089
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:14,560
something that is

2090
01:11:18,550 --> 01:11:17,520
totally indescribable uh and yet it's

2091
01:11:21,669 --> 01:11:18,560
exactly what

2092
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:21,679
what karen was urging me to remember

2093
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,239
about my experience and the importance

2094
01:11:27,430 --> 01:11:26,560
of unpacking that experience for this

2095
01:11:30,630 --> 01:11:27,440
world

2096
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:30,640
uh is that we are all uh are truly bound

2097
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:32,880
together through love and that is what

2098
01:11:35,990 --> 01:11:35,199
one of the deepest lessons from the tip

2099
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:36,000
of the spear

2100
01:11:43,990 --> 01:11:40,960
changing this world around consciousness

2101
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:44,000
uh but that is the profound lesson that

2102
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:47,120
in the ears agree upon is that we are

2103
01:11:51,669 --> 01:11:48,400
fundamentally

2104
01:11:54,149 --> 01:11:51,679
uh essence of pure love and

2105
01:11:56,790 --> 01:11:54,159
and that is something that i think comes

2106
01:12:00,070 --> 01:11:56,800
out tremendously from the nde community

2107
01:12:02,390 --> 01:12:00,080
and also from this larger community of

2108
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:02,400
of the science of consciousness studies

2109
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:03,760
it's really all about

2110
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:07,120
being that love but in doing so

2111
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,120
in becoming that that's how we can

2112
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:11,520
change this world

2113
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:13,840
it may come out through all of those

2114
01:12:16,229 --> 01:12:14,880
things and

2115
01:12:18,550 --> 01:12:16,239
let's hope that that does but it

2116
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:18,560
certainly comes out in the work that

2117
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:20,880
you're doing which is

2118
01:12:25,189 --> 01:12:23,360
just terrific you know i mean i can't

2119
01:12:28,550 --> 01:12:25,199
stress it enough

2120
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:28,560
i don't know why you were chosen

2121
01:12:32,709 --> 01:12:31,280
but thank god you were chosen you were

2122
01:12:34,950 --> 01:12:32,719
the you were the

2123
01:12:35,990 --> 01:12:34,960
guy you were the right guy for the job

2124
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:36,000
let me tell you and it's

2125
01:12:40,950 --> 01:12:38,320
fantastic well you know i the thing is i

2126
01:12:43,270 --> 01:12:40,960
having been where i've been

2127
01:12:44,950 --> 01:12:43,280
you know in this nde and trying to make

2128
01:12:47,430 --> 01:12:44,960
sense of it

2129
01:12:49,030 --> 01:12:47,440
i realized that you know in md and

2130
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:49,040
harvard and all that stuff

2131
01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:52,640
doesn't mean squat doesn't mean a thing

2132
01:12:56,870 --> 01:12:55,440
i've met uh you know people from all

2133
01:12:59,030 --> 01:12:56,880
different walks of life who've had

2134
01:12:59,910 --> 01:12:59,040
profound ndes that they shared with me

2135
01:13:03,030 --> 01:12:59,920
that helped me

2136
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:03,040
tremendously in my own understanding so

2137
01:13:06,229 --> 01:13:04,080
these

2138
01:13:08,470 --> 01:13:06,239
events are out there you know by the

2139
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:08,480
millions to help change humanity and

2140
01:13:11,430 --> 01:13:09,520
help wake us up

2141
01:13:13,590 --> 01:13:11,440
i think the only importance of my story

2142
01:13:17,590 --> 01:13:13,600
in our current cultural

2143
01:13:19,870 --> 01:13:17,600
kind of uh paralysis in some sense um

2144
01:13:21,189 --> 01:13:19,880
has been that you know by being a

2145
01:13:24,390 --> 01:13:21,199
neuroscientist

2146
01:13:26,470 --> 01:13:24,400
uh even though my brain was so savaged

2147
01:13:28,870 --> 01:13:26,480
by the infection that when i woke up on

2148
01:13:31,189 --> 01:13:28,880
day seven of coma and that icu bed

2149
01:13:33,669 --> 01:13:31,199
i did not even recognize my mother my

2150
01:13:36,390 --> 01:13:33,679
sisters my sons standing at the bedside

2151
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:36,400
all i knew was where i had just been my

2152
01:13:40,790 --> 01:13:37,280
brain was

2153
01:13:42,229 --> 01:13:40,800
wrecked but that's the kind of beauty of

2154
01:13:45,750 --> 01:13:42,239
the message because it then

2155
01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:45,760
all came back and

2156
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:48,880
and that's a kind of an extraordinary uh

2157
01:13:52,070 --> 01:13:51,040
story but what it what it does is it

2158
01:13:55,350 --> 01:13:52,080
helps me

2159
01:13:58,390 --> 01:13:55,360
uh to understand kind of the depths of

2160
01:13:59,910 --> 01:13:58,400
of uh of of my own journey i mean if i'd

2161
01:14:00,790 --> 01:13:59,920
been a truck driver and had this

2162
01:14:03,189 --> 01:14:00,800
experience

2163
01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:03,199
my doctors as my doctors told me when i

2164
01:14:06,709 --> 01:14:05,040
woke up not knowing any neuroscience

2165
01:14:08,550 --> 01:14:06,719
having none of that knowledge

2166
01:14:10,870 --> 01:14:08,560
they said the dying brain plays all

2167
01:14:11,110 --> 01:14:10,880
kinds of tricks so you can forget about

2168
01:14:12,950 --> 01:14:11,120
it

2169
01:14:14,950 --> 01:14:12,960
we have no idea how you're coming back

2170
01:14:16,390 --> 01:14:14,960
to us your brain was soaking in pus

2171
01:14:18,630 --> 01:14:16,400
nobody thought you'd even live through

2172
01:14:19,990 --> 01:14:18,640
it but you can forget about that

2173
01:14:20,390 --> 01:14:20,000
experience you're trying to tell us

2174
01:14:22,550 --> 01:14:20,400
about

2175
01:14:24,550 --> 01:14:22,560
and so i did you know that's where we

2176
01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:24,560
get back to that story you shared of my

2177
01:14:27,990 --> 01:14:26,560
son coming home two days after i got out

2178
01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:28,000
of the hospital

2179
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:29,760
and by then i bought what my doctors

2180
01:14:31,990 --> 01:14:31,440
told me the dying brain plays all kinds

2181
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:32,000
of tricks

2182
01:14:35,830 --> 01:14:34,480
so i told him it was way too real to be

2183
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:35,840
real

2184
01:14:38,870 --> 01:14:37,199
and that's when he advised me we'll

2185
01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:38,880
write it all down before you read

2186
01:14:42,870 --> 01:14:40,960
anything about somebody else's nde

2187
01:14:45,590 --> 01:14:42,880
because you need a pure version of your

2188
01:14:48,709 --> 01:14:45,600
story best advice i've ever gotten

2189
01:14:50,470 --> 01:14:48,719
but that was absolutely critical but

2190
01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:50,480
then as my knowledge came back i

2191
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:51,199
realized this

2192
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:53,360
is impossible this cannot happen and

2193
01:14:56,790 --> 01:14:55,040
that of course is where that case report

2194
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:56,800
is so important because they thought the

2195
01:15:00,470 --> 01:14:57,679
same thing

2196
01:15:01,830 --> 01:15:00,480
this kind of patient did not wake up and

2197
01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:01,840
yet i did

2198
01:15:05,350 --> 01:15:03,520
and not only that i had this profound

2199
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:05,360
experience and of course that's what

2200
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:07,360
they explained scientifically

2201
01:15:10,870 --> 01:15:09,760
as the explanation for why i had the

2202
01:15:12,630 --> 01:15:10,880
recovery

2203
01:15:14,310 --> 01:15:12,640
and i think that's beautiful it shows us

2204
01:15:17,590 --> 01:15:14,320
that the scientific world

2205
01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:17,600
is certainly making progress and opening

2206
01:15:19,830 --> 01:15:18,480
up to truth

2207
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:19,840
i mean that's what we're all after here

2208
01:15:23,110 --> 01:15:21,679
we want to understand the truth and we

2209
01:15:25,510 --> 01:15:23,120
should not let our

2210
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:25,520
the limitations of our theoretical

2211
01:15:28,790 --> 01:15:26,320
models

2212
01:15:29,590 --> 01:15:28,800
of our inability to assimilate and

2213
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:29,600
integrate

2214
01:15:33,270 --> 01:15:32,080
empirical data we shouldn't let those

2215
01:15:35,590 --> 01:15:33,280
weaknesses

2216
01:15:37,590 --> 01:15:35,600
get in the way of trying to get at the

2217
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:37,600
deep truth of all of this and that

2218
01:15:42,149 --> 01:15:39,920
involves a very open mind and it also

2219
01:15:45,510 --> 01:15:42,159
involves a responsibility

2220
01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:45,520
to study the data and i would also say

2221
01:15:50,709 --> 01:15:48,480
encourage people go within the answers

2222
01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:50,719
truly lie within us all meditation

2223
01:15:54,070 --> 01:15:52,719
centering prayer whatever your means of

2224
01:15:56,229 --> 01:15:54,080
quieting that little

2225
01:15:58,229 --> 01:15:56,239
voice of the annoying roommate you know

2226
01:15:59,910 --> 01:15:58,239
on a regular basis i meditate an hour to

2227
01:16:01,750 --> 01:15:59,920
a day with sacred acoustics and

2228
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:01,760
i wouldn't trade it for anything it's a

2229
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:03,760
tremendous gift

2230
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:05,760
and all of us can come into much greater

2231
01:16:12,149 --> 01:16:08,400
healing uh with this kind of uh

2232
01:16:14,550 --> 01:16:12,159
kind of going within well fantastic

2233
01:16:15,750 --> 01:16:14,560
and it's been just terrific having you

2234
01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:15,760
on thank you you're so generous with

2235
01:16:19,110 --> 01:16:17,199
your time and

2236
01:16:20,950 --> 01:16:19,120
sharing all this terrific stuff thanks

2237
01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:20,960
for having me on and thank you for what

2238
01:16:25,110 --> 01:16:22,080
you're doing because i

2239
01:16:25,350 --> 01:16:25,120
promise you a lot of what i interpret as

2240
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:25,360
an

2241
01:16:28,870 --> 01:16:27,280
improvement in the world's kind of

2242
01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:28,880
understanding of all this in the last

2243
01:16:31,669 --> 01:16:29,679
decade

2244
01:16:35,430 --> 01:16:31,679
a lot of that is due to your work so

2245
01:16:37,270 --> 01:16:35,440
keep it up thanks again to dr evan

2246
01:16:38,390 --> 01:16:37,280
alexander for joining me today on

2247
01:16:43,030 --> 01:16:38,400
skeptico

2248
01:16:46,070 --> 01:16:43,040
and thanks again for all that he does

2249
01:16:47,750 --> 01:16:46,080
it ain't easy doing what he does

2250
01:16:49,510 --> 01:16:47,760
so the one question i'd have to tip from

2251
01:16:50,310 --> 01:16:49,520
this episode relates back to something

2252
01:16:53,510 --> 01:16:50,320
we talked about

2253
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:53,520
early on in the conversation and that is

2254
01:17:00,070 --> 01:16:56,640
dr alexander's near-death experience

2255
01:17:02,790 --> 01:17:00,080
seems to be tied to his family dynamics

2256
01:17:04,470 --> 01:17:02,800
in a very powerful way and i wonder what

2257
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:04,480
y'all think about

2258
01:17:11,910 --> 01:17:08,159
the role of near-death experiences

2259
01:17:13,990 --> 01:17:11,920
in our personal spiritual journey

2260
01:17:16,149 --> 01:17:14,000
i know that's some next level stuff but

2261
01:17:16,709 --> 01:17:16,159
i'd really like to go there i want to go

2262
01:17:21,750 --> 01:17:16,719
there

2263
01:17:23,669 --> 01:17:21,760
share any thoughts you might have

2264
01:17:25,910 --> 01:17:23,679
track me down on the skeptical forum or

2265
01:17:28,830 --> 01:17:25,920
anywhere else you would like

2266
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:28,840
until next time take care and bye for

2267
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:30,410
now